Backmount vs Sidemount

[DeepDiverBob]

Now that we have a few more tech divers on here, I thought now might be a good time to discuss the advantages vs disadvantages of the set up, and also recommendations or advice for someone who might be getting into sidemount configurations.

[Atlaua]

You might want to talk with Marc Bodart. He dive's sidemount.

[Captain Caveman]

are you talking about were the tank is under your chest and next to your arms instead of doubles on your back?
i manage that would be hard to move and check you spg exe.

[do it easy]

let me preface this with the fact that i'm cavern trained, but not cave...

i've never tried sidemount, but it does have a few appealling characteristics- lower profile, true redundancy. i've heard some complaints about managing thirds, but i don't see what all the fuss is about- watch your gas at all times- backmount or sidemount.

i think sidemount divers are near the top or bottom of the food chain (depending on how you look at it)- OW divers think tech divers are crazy, tech divers think that sidemount divers are insane, and everyone agrees that no mount divers are about as nuts as you can get without attracting squirrels. of course, as soon as you throw in a rebreather, that trumps the diver up (or down) another level. hopefully, no one is offended by my synopsis of the diver pecking order. i don't mean any disrespect to the squirrels and animal lovers out there.

down, the road, i think that sidemount would be interesting to try. maybe i might like it. no mount might be another story- jamming myself into a crack in no vis, and basically going in by feel- well on second thought, maybe i'll give that a try when the time is right.

i should also add that no one should dive beyond their experience and training. seek the proper training for the dive.

[SLIM]

Sidemount is not only becoming popular but it wsa designed as a reason. I know many that only dive SM but I must also say they have been cave diving for a very long time. It was mostly for sump diving (that is a totaly differant aspect.)

Tere is much more dificulty with your bouancy and with your gas managmanet. Once you have mastered Cave Diving you can then work on a SM rig that will work for YOU. There is no such a thing as a SM rig off the shelf. I have been doing it for severla years and still have not found the right rig I like. WHen using SM there is much more dificulty with some drills if you must share air. Carrying stages is differnat. Your profile and hydrodynamics changes greatly. I know many that also change back and forth depending on the mission planned. But they are very experianced Cave Divers.

When you think you have got it, better have many dives in open water where you do not have to worry aobut damaging anything or causing problems for other divers.

SLIM

[Atlaua]

let me preface this with the fact that i'm cavern trained, but not cave...

Take my posts with the same grain of salt...

From what I've seen/researched there are several resons to choose sidemount over backmount:

1. Restrictions. There are just some restrictions you can't get through with a set of doubles on your back.
2. Physical traits. The first sidemount diver I saw had a serious case of OP (I know strange in men). He just couldn't physically handle a set of doubles on his back.
3. Personal preference.

The big stigma against SM is, as you pointed out, that they (usually) like independant doubles. ID's are hated by many and loved by a vocal minority. I won't go into the pros/cons of ID's.

And, as has been pointed out, there are no "stock" SM configs. However, they are growing in popularity and I know of at least 1 company that is making sidemount specific gear.

As far as being "hard to move and check your spg's" a sidemount rig is not so different from a stage rig, which is a very common practice...

James

[Mverick]

There is ONE stock sidemount rig I know of... It's the Dive Rite transpac 2 with the extra side mount attachments....


Not saying its a great system... But it was for sidemount with the Trek wing..

Sidemount pluses...
Redundancy...
Lower profile

Sidemount minuses..
If you blow a tank O ring... You only have one tank... No isolation valve to use both tanks air... Or isolating the first stage to be able to use all gas still...

HAVE to swap regs. Not breath off a primary, both regs are primary's and switching while diving...... Or your Bouyancy goes to X#$@

I looked at if for a long time.. Nice system if you need it.. If you don't... Well, It works better with manifolded duals...

Guy's I knew that dive sidemount.. Did it all the time.. Even in Open Water... Just to keep there skills up...

[do it easy]

i also get the feeling that SM is peceived as way off the beaten path. even the guys who are setting the penetration records (WKPP, GI3, JJ etc.) don't seem to embrace sidemount.

it seems like some ideas are resisted at first, but then become generally accepted as they are proven safe- SPG's, nitrox, trimix, etc. however, I don't think that SM will gain the warm welcome that the other "innovations" have received. this is probably because of it's specialized purpose. it will probably be the black sheep of the family for a while. when new cave gets more scarce and people are searching for virgin cave, then SM might become more popular to the explorer, but i don't think that it will ever be mainstream.

:1118:

[Atlaua]

even the guys who are setting the penetration records (WKPP, GI3, JJ etc.) don't seem to embrace sidemount.

You might not want to refer to that list in the plural.... That repensents a single train of thought...

[do it easy]

i guess i better be careful or else julie might censor my posts.

back on topic, my point was that SM isn't the next training goal after doubles, deco, stage, scooter diving, etc. it's more like a less travelled but parallel offshoot- anywhere you can dive doubles, you can dive SM.


:901:

[Atlaua]

i guess i better be careful or else julie might censor my posts.

back on topic, my point was that SM isn't the next training goal after doubles, deco, stage, scooter diving, etc. it's more like a less travelled but parallel offshoot- anywhere you can dive doubles, you can dive SM.


:901:

I agree, I'm just trying to head off one of those "DIR vs. Stroke" arguments. :).

[juls64]

i guess i better be careful or else julie might censor my posts.


:0289:


No,but I have been following this thread!

I am just reading and learning. I have nothing to contribute, but I do find it interesting.

Juls

[do it easy]

I agree, I'm just trying to head off one of those "DIR vs. Stroke" arguments. :).


we'll save that for another thread... on scubaboard! it is amusing to follow sometimes. although by the time it gets amusing, it has nothing to do with diving.

:2607:

[do it easy]

Sidemount minuses..
If you blow a tank O ring... You only have one tank... No isolation valve to use both tanks air... Or isolating the first stage to be able to use all gas still...



if you blow a tank o ring with doubles then you'll be in the same situation- one tank empty and the other with half your gas.

however, if you have a freeflow- in doubles, you could isolate and use all your gas.

for a freeflow in SM, i'm not sure what you would do, but i suppose, you could still breathe off the reg by feathering the valve, although this doesn't look like the most comfortable thing to do, considering the valve will be in your armpit. of course, with proper gas management, you should still have enough gas in the other tank to make an exit, so worse case scenario, you exit with lousy trim.

:0519:

[do it easy]

so many questions now-

is SM better for certain types of dives than others? what was the reason that slim suggested?

my guess is that SM is better for shorter, more restrictive dives, where doubles would be more appropriate when trying to lay down line.

is stage diving not as common with SM? is it common to use a scooter with SM, or is it pretty much swimming?

and what is this banana doing to the smiley face?

:0514:

[Mverick]

if you blow a tank o ring with doubles then you'll be in the same situation- one tank empty and the other with half your gas.

however, if you have a freeflow- in doubles, you could isolate and use all your gas.

for a freeflow in SM, i'm not sure what you would do, but i suppose, you could still breathe off the reg by feathering the valve, although this doesn't look like the most comfortable thing to do, considering the valve will be in your armpit. of course, with proper gas management, you should still have enough gas in the other tank to make an exit, so worse case scenario, you exit with lousy trim.

:0519:

I should have phrased it better. If you blow a Tank O ring from the First stage to the Valve... Not the large O ring from the Tank to the Valve..... Oops....

You're right on the other part.... Lousy trim, But half your gas... Most sidemount to cave Dive... Lousy trim in a cave, I would think, would really stink... But, they sidemount to go through restrictions you can't do with backmount duals...

[SLIM]

When you are in a very large system, why use SM. If it is just to see what is there in the less traveld area, then you maydo more damage then not even going.

You can still use stages with SM but your travel gas is used perportionalty with all your tanks. If you breath them down unevenly then you get a problem with trim. Most SM is used to explore the samller sections for ease of your profile and the ability to remove tanks to push through a small section. Then if you are exploring or survyeing there is not a problem but if it is just to see what is there it is damaging. Just think of all the dives and surveys that have been done at Peacock but many still have ot use SM to see what is under the ledges that on the map go no where. They do not relize the damge that is being done.

If you have a bad back and use SM for that reason, is it safe? Remember even though you should be able with your skills and comfort level to do all your diving SOLO in a cave, would you still be able to help out a buddy that is in trouble? Bad back can cause problems when you are now helping a buddy weather it is on the surface or underwater. The drills used are differant. That brings up- should SM diver dive with a BM? What is the correct answer to that one? Ther is not wright or wrong answer. It has so many variblities such as each divers skill level and experties. I dive with some SM but some I wont. I dive SM only when it is needed, mostly in sumps.

SM is like any other training. You have to start with walking and then you move up. Just like starting scuba and taking all the classes to get further. Before SM can be obtained first it is learning to Cave Dive and then logging many and just working your way up the chain of knowledge and skills.

Look at Sheck, he would use SM only when it was needed othewise it was BM 90% of the time. In SM all the stuff you take with you as you do in BM is moved to another locatioin. It is very task loading doing simple tasks that are easyer when BM.

SLIM

[DeepDiverBob]

It was recommended to me to start off with Side Mount instead of doing the doubles. Its too late for that, I've had my doubles all summer, but I am always looking for other ideas. I would definilty try out the side mount rig many many times in OW before ever thinking about heading into a true over head environment with them.

[theskull]

It was recommended to me to start off with Side Mount instead of doing the doubles. Its too late for that, I've had my doubles all summer, but I am always looking for other ideas. I would definilty try out the side mount rig many many times in OW before ever thinking about heading into a true over head environment with them.

I can't imagine who would make such a suggestion to a beginning tech diver. Actually, yes I can, but I would love to hear the justification given. (And I'm quite sure the reasoning wasn't that you needed it to help a local caving team push some sumps!!!)

And yes, Bob, YOU would definitely practice 'til near perfect before taking new gear into overhead. I commend you on your patience and caution with your diving.

theskull

[DeepDiverBob]

I am not mentioning names, but I will say it wasnt anybody local that said that to me.

[theskull]

I am not mentioning names, but I will say it wasnt anybody local that said that to me.

OK, no names. But please tell me it was a cyber-diver from SCUBABoard. I can use the laugh.

theskull

[DeepDiverBob]

sorry..it wasnt a cyber diver.

[reefraff]

The only time I've done any side-mount diving has been when we wanted to penetrate through a point that wasn't tall enough to make in doubles. I was diving a borrowed rig and it was an unusual experience - the gas monitoring was a little nervous though not particularly difficult and I really didn't like the repeated gas switches. I also had a rotten time with the buoyancy and finally decided that I was more comfortable taking my doubles off and using them as a no mount for the 10 feet I needed to squirrel my way through the restriction.

I see guys using them but I also see them pretty much continuously futzing with them, trying to adapt this and fix that and what not. It's a great DIY project that keeps them entertained but I don't know if they're really all that practical. Besides, as I get older and less nimble I get more comfortable with the idea that if God really meant for me to get into that cramped room, he'd have made the passage big enough for my fat butt in doubles. :o

I did get to play around with a Dive Rite side mount system for a few days one time. It was slick but didn't seem to resolve any of the problems that are inherent in side mounts.