Padi Erdp

[Atlaua]

So does anyone else have any experience with this. Personally I'm of mixed feelings.

I was working with an OW class last weekend and one of the students had some table issues. The instructor asked me to take him off and work with him on the tables.

While I was doing so, one of the store staff informed me that if he continued having trouble I should let him know that he could use the ERDP for the exam.

Well I grabbed one and played around with it. It is easy to work and is setup such that you can enter different modes and answer the various exam questions.

However I see some pro's and con's to this:

Pros:

Allows divers who "just don't get the tables" to pass the exams.
Might encourage divers who would just "blindly follow a caribean DM" to actually check the tables.
Cons:

Bypasses the basic understanding of pentalties for previous dives that learning the tables provides.
If you don't get the tables and are going to dive anyway, a computer is, sadly, probably a better choice.
James

[StSomewhere]

You have to manually calculate the EAD for nitrox (which someone who doesn't "get" tables is not gonna be able to do either), it doesn't do multilevel, and -- the biggie -- it doesn't work under water.

It has a demo/plan mode, you can punch in your si and planned depth and see what your ndl would be for the next dive. Or am I missing something?

[reefraff]

Looked at it briefly, it seemed like a cute idea that wasn't very well executed. It looked like a spaghetti splat to me: PADI throwing stuff against the wall to see if anything sticks. This one didn't, though if there is a next iteration, who knows.

I guess I'm an old fart, but if you aren't smart enough to figure out how to use the tables, I'm not certain you're smart enough to dive. Of course, I remember when calculators didn't exist and high school math included lessons on using a slipstick...egads, I'm a dinosaur.

[juls64]

We have a couple in our shop that have been there quite a while. Though they are displayed pretty prominently, they hardly get noticed. I don't push them because I believe people should learn the tables. I liked the idea about using them with someone who is having trouble using the tables. I may try that.

Julie

[scubado]

I have mixed feelings as well. I believe that students need to learn the basics and thoroughly understand the tables and the concepts behind them. And, I've never had a student fail due to the ability to learn the tables (over 10 years of teaching).

However, I suspect that a lot of former students have forgotten how to use the tables and simply dive with the DM or until they're low on air. Therefore, I guess that if they learn the ERDP and actually use it, then it is of some value and will make them safer divers.

Bill

[nitroxbabe]

[QUOTE=reefraff]<snip>...but if you aren't smart enough to figure out how to use the tables, I'm not certain you're smart enough to dive.<snip>QUOTE]

Hear, hear.

[MgicTwnger]

I remember when calculators didn't exist and high school math included lessons on using a slipstick...egads, I'm a dinosaur.

Man, I REALLY hated those things!

[crpntr133]

Seen it, used it and hated it. I agree with reefraff, can't do the tables then stay on land.
Even with a computer I think you still need to know how to work the tables for a repeat dive.
What I really think is wrong is that PADI lets the student use it on the exam. Of course they are pushing their product. The LDS likes them but they also don't want to mess with teaching a student how to use the tables.

[nauifins73]

Well I guess I should be on dry land - the Instr I had in my OW class did 1 or 2 problems and that was the extent of the Tables education I had.

[Atlaua]

The tables are difficult for some people. Some tables are less complicated than others but some people just can't seem to keep up with the steps.

IMHO, being able to work a table is not as important as understanding the reasoning behind them. I do think that the ERDP is setup to "pass the exam" which I don't like.

James

[nauifins73]

IMHO, being able to work a table is not as important as understanding the reasoning behind them. I do think that the ERDP is setup to "pass the exam" which I don't like.

James[/QUOTE]

I agree completely! My comment was just a comment on the class I had - in no way was I ready for any diving after my class. Thank goodness my husband was in the class as a refresher (he originally certified in 1969) - he would have never believed my class. When we did our test - the Instr said he needed some coffee and would be back as soon as every one was done and he walked out.

[DeepDiverBob]

I had no problem with the tables until I had to turn them over and use the third chart. Now looking back, I cant believe I had trouble with that.

In my opinion, if you are going to spend the money on a gadget, spend the good money and get a computer. At least it will warn you before who screw up.

[M&P+4]

I didn't really get them until I had to teach my daughter...I passed the test OK but really didn't figure it out until I had to explain it to someone.

[theskull]

I had no problem with the tables until I had to turn them over and use the third chart. Now looking back, I cant believe I had trouble with that.

In my opinion, if you are going to spend the money on a gadget, spend the good money and get a computer. At least it will warn you before who screw up.

I always recommend a computer to new students. With the SUUNTO Mosquito or Gekko so affordable and easy to use, I'd like to see every new diver equipped. I dive with so many rookie divers who not only don't use the tables but don't even wear an underwater watch that if it was part of their basic mask-snorkel-fins purchase they would be much better off.

theskull

[ozarkjim]

I always recommend a computer to new students. With the SUUNTO Mosquito or Gekko so affordable and easy to use, I'd like to see every new diver equipped. I dive with so many rookie divers who not only don't use the tables but don't even wear an underwater watch that if it was part of their basic mask-snorkel-fins purchase they would be much better off.

theskull

I agree 100%. We encourage computer use for the same reasons. I believe the local SDI shop supplies loaner computers for their OW students which I think is a great idea. (Don't tell my CD I said that.)

[crpntr133]

I hope that I don't get shot for posting this link. (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/software/software.asp)If you dare go to Scubaboard, PM Larry and he will give you the code for the full version. I think you can also write in someplace on the online form and they will email it to you. This program is FREE if you tell them you are a Scubaboarder.

I have to admit that 6 months of not diving after my OW class I forgot how to work the residual nitrogen table. One thing that I was NOT taught in OW was how to figure how long your repeatitive dive could be. The above program taught me how.

[MgicTwnger]

IMHO, computers, calculators, or whatever can never substitute for the basic knowledge, but they sure come in handy.

[scubado]

Tables computers and the ERDP are tools. However, if people don't know how to use them, they are useless. I think I understand why they developed the ERDP. However, I would prefer that my students use the tables during class and examination. I would then encourage them to purchase a computer (preferably) or ERDP after certification to ensure that they are calculating their NDL and limiting their exposure.

[StSomewhere]

I think the ERDP is still better than just glossing over tables and telling new divers to dive what their computers tell them to. (Which is probably why I didin't certify with SDI.)

OTOH, the PADI RDP table is way more complicated than it has to be, if the goal is to teach new divers how to safely plan repetitive dives.

YMMV.

[Atlaua]

I think the ERDP is still better than just glossing over tables and telling new divers to dive what their computers tell them to. (Which is probably why I didin't certify with SDI.)

OTOH, the PADI RDP table is way more complicated than it has to be, if the goal is to teach new divers how to safely plan repetitive dives.

YMMV.

I agree. The NAUI table has everything on one side. For some reason that whole flip, seems to confuse people.

James

[StSomewhere]

I agree. The NAUI table has everything on one side. For some reason that whole flip, seems to confuse people.Exactly. That plus the dual sets of numbers on the flip side, just to remind people there is an RNT to subtract?

[DeepDiverBob]

I agree. The NAUI table has everything on one side. For some reason that whole flip, seems to confuse people.

James

Since we are bring old threads back from the dead....


I dont think it is the flip that confuses people, its the second flip.

All this brings up another set of questions...

If the shops are indeed going away from the RDP, and teaching ERDP, then why not offer an EWheel for the PADI classes as well? Or, since I dont know anybody that ever uses it, do away with the wheel altogether.

[theskull]

. . . then why not offer an EWheel for the PADI classes as well? Or, since I dont know anybody that ever uses it, do away with the wheel altogether.

I do know one diver who uses the wheel and likes it. We must preserve its use and availability just for that dude.

theskull