Tanks Fact and Fiction

[skdvr]

I came across this today and thought that it was pretty interesting so I thought I would share it...

http://www.adalefox.com/fact_&_fiction.htm

Phil

[M&P+4]

I came across this today and thought that it was pretty interesting so I thought I would share it...

http://www.adalefox.com/fact_&_fiction.htm

Phil

interesting....but wouldn't it be nice if we could get along without so many pages of regulations?

[theskull]

interesting....but wouldn't it be nice if we could get along without so many pages of regulations?

Just be glad the regulations are so easy to comply with and require very little governmental intervention.

Also, it is simple and relatively inexpensive to become a PSI certified inspector, which allows you to do your own yearly visuals. Well worth it once you own more than a half dozen cylinders.

theskull

[M&P+4]

Just be glad the regulations are so easy to comply with and require very little governmental intervention.

Also, it is simple and relatively inexpensive to become a PSI certified inspector, which allows you to do your own yearly visuals. Well worth it once you own more than a half dozen cylinders.

theskull

I'm well over that...maybe I should look into taking the course some day.

[b1gcountry]

Interesting references to the CGA standards. Which are not publicly available unless you want to pay $100+ per page. Also interesting that the USDOT regulations seem to reference these standards as law even though they are published by a private, for profit organization. It doesn't seem in keeping with how government regulations usually work. I also found it interesting that they guy says the Luxfer fiber wrapped tanks need to be inspected yearly according to law and some standard, but doesn't mention steels and aluminums specifically. Why mention a firefighting tank in an article about scuba tanks unless it is to mislead you into thinking it applies to all scuba tanks?

Tom

[skdvr]

Interesting references to the CGA standards. Which are not publicly available unless you want to pay $100+ per page. Also interesting that the USDOT regulations seem to reference these standards as law even though they are published by a private, for profit organization. It doesn't seem in keeping with how government regulations usually work.

I found that kind of interesting too, that the CGA does not make the law but the USDOT considers them the "Experts" in the field and references their standards as law.

I also found it interesting that they guy says the Luxfer fiber wrapped tanks need to be inspected yearly according to law and some standard, but doesn't mention steels and aluminums specifically. Why mention a firefighting tank in an article about scuba tanks unless it is to mislead you into thinking it applies to all scuba tanks?

Tom

If you go back and Re-Read that statement he does mention that it is a scuba cylinder. Luxfer makes the only hoop-wraped cylinder approved for scuba. It is a 4350 psi 105 cf tank. Those tanks have to be inspected by a PSI certified inspector only. That is why he mentions it on that page. If you are trained for visual inspections from TDI or any other agency it is not good enough as far as Luxfer is concerned. All that tank is, is a AL80 with a carbon fiber wrap which allows 4350 psi rating. You can see the specs here http://www.luxfercylinders.com/products/scuba/specifications/us_imperial.shtml

The standard for visual inspections over all scuba tanks is covered under CGA P-5. While I do not have a copy of that pug you can see the index at the following link.
http://www.cganet.com/pubs/toc/P-5_5%20toc.pdf

Phil

[skdvr]

Also, it is simple and relatively inexpensive to become a PSI certified inspector, which allows you to do your own yearly visuals. Well worth it once you own more than a half dozen cylinders.

theskull

I agree, I just finished the course about 2 weeks ago. I thought that I knew a fair amount about cylinders, and I still learned a lot during the course.

Phil

[M&P+4]

Interesting references to the CGA standards. Which are not publicly available unless you want to pay $100+ per page. Also interesting that the USDOT regulations seem to reference these standards as law even though they are published by a private, for profit organization. It doesn't seem in keeping with how government regulations usually work.
Tom

This actually isn't that out of the ordinary. I work at a hospital and many of the laws reference codes published by not-for-profit loaded up with vendors that write codes to suport thier product lines....happens all the time.

[reefraff]

Interesting references to the CGA standards...It doesn't seem in keeping with how government regulations usually work.
You aren't very familiar with how these things usually work.

We all understand that "government expert" is a classic oxymoron, that's why outside experts get hired to write most of the standards, rules and legislation. The guys at CGA are experts and they get paid, usually by publishing their work for a fee which is then incorporated by reference into the rules.

It's not nefarious and it has the benefit of making the players pay for the expertise instead of Joe Taxpayer.

[reefraff]

Like most folks, I first took the VIP course because I’m a geek and I wanted to learn, also because I thought I might save a little money by doing my own inspections.

Like most folks, I enjoyed the class and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned was that by the time I paid for the class and the tools, it was going to cost me more to inspect my six tanks than paying my local shop to do them for me.

Something I didn’t learn in the class became apparent later…that was that, like a kid fresh from Driver’s Ed, I had learned just enough to be dangerous and needed practice, practice and more practice if I was going to get to be any good. Going to work in a dive shop and inspecting a wide range of tanks every week was an eye-opening (more like eye-popping) experience. If you’re only inspecting your own cylinders, you are never going to have the experience base to be good at it, the best that can be hoped for is that you will be adequate.

After years as an occasional Dive Shop Monkey, I’ve learned a lot about tanks. I’ve also learned that guys who take the visual inspection class but don’t work in dive shops fall into three categories:


Geeks who want to learn as much as they can. I like these guys.
Cranks who can’t stand the idea that somebody else has control over their gear and, by extension, them. I can relate to these guys.
Cheapskates who are only doing it to save money. I wish these guys would stay on the golf course.


If you’re going to do your own inspections, remember this: the reason the shops require the inspections isn’t to protect you or even your gear. It’s to protect me, the guy who has to fill them. There is a big trust component to letting you sticker your own cylinders every year, hopefully you’ll honor that trust by following a few guidelines:


Don’t fudge it, take the time and spend the money to do the work carefully and properly. Resist the temptation to let a bad tank slide by. I sample a fair number of DIY inspections and it’s disturbing how many of people just slap a new sticker on their tanks and call it a day.
Ask for help if you aren’t sure. Nothing will give you more credibility with me than to bring one of your toys in and ask for a second opinion about something you aren’t sure about.
See if your local shop will let you come in and use their facility to do the inspections. You might save money on the tools and having somebody to backstop you if you need a little help or a second opinion is a great idea.
Put your name on your stickers. If you don't have the pride to say "I did this" how do you expect me to trust that you did? Besides, if your name isn't on the sticker, how is my estate going to know who to sue if your shoddy work gets me killed? :D

[skdvr]

Like most folks, I first took the VIP course because I’m a geek and I wanted to learn, also because I thought I might save a little money by doing my own inspections.

Like most folks, I enjoyed the class and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned was that by the time I paid for the class and the tools, it was going to cost me more to inspect my six tanks than paying my local shop to do them for me.

Something I didn’t learn in the class became apparent later…that was that, like a kid fresh from Driver’s Ed, I had learned just enough to be dangerous and needed practice, practice and more practice if I was going to get to be any good. Going to work in a dive shop and inspecting a wide range of tanks every week was an eye-opening (more like eye-popping) experience. If you’re only inspecting your own cylinders, you are never going to have the experience base to be good at it, the best that can be hoped for is that you will be adequate.

After years as an occasional Dive Shop Monkey, I’ve learned a lot about tanks. I’ve also learned that guys who take the visual inspection class but don’t work in dive shops fall into three categories:


Geeks who want to learn as much as they can. I like these guys.
Cranks who can’t stand the idea that somebody else has control over their gear and, by extension, them. I can relate to these guys.
Cheapskates who are only doing it to save money. I wish these guys would stay on the golf course.

If you’re going to do your own inspections, remember this: the reason the shops require the inspections isn’t to protect you or even your gear. It’s to protect me, the guy who has to fill them. There is a big trust component to letting you sticker your own cylinders every year, hopefully you’ll honor that trust by following a few guidelines:


Don’t fudge it, take the time and spend the money to do the work carefully and properly. Resist the temptation to let a bad tank slide by. I sample a fair number of DIY inspections and it’s disturbing how many of people just slap a new sticker on their tanks and call it a day.
Ask for help if you aren’t sure. Nothing will give you more credibility with me than to bring one of your toys in and ask for a second opinion about something you aren’t sure about.
See if your local shop will let you come in and use their facility to do the inspections. You might save money on the tools and having somebody to backstop you if you need a little help or a second opinion is a great idea.
Put your name on your stickers. If you don't have the pride to say "I did this" how do you expect me to trust that you did? Besides, if your name isn't on the sticker, how is my estate going to know who to sue if your shoddy work gets me killed? :D


You make good points...

I fall into the Geek catagory... I just like to have as much info as possible. I also agree that with the limited amount of tanks that I will see I would love the opportunity to get into a shop to help out with some Vis's just to stay more current and see more things. I have no problem asking for help if I need it. I actually had already asked my instructor (Ken from Y-Kiki) about bringing in a tank that I had a question about, because I thought that there may have been a crack in the threads. Then after looking at it some more and finally getting out the scribe to feel it I realized that it was only a piece of lint. I had to send him another email telling him how silly I felt, but if I ever ran into anything that I was even kind of questioning I would ask him or another inspector to take a look at...

Phil