Wreck line usage

[brettbyers]

Here is a question that I would like everyone's opinion on. Should there be permanent lines run inside of wrecks? I ask this question because I just got back from diving on the Cedarville in the Straits of Mackinac and I was about to go into the engine room but when I stuck my head in I saw lines all over the place. I didn't want to get tangled up in the lines so I didn't enter. I don't know if these lines were left on purpose or that someone got lazy and didn't reel their lines up. Being a guest in the area I didn't want to cut the lines and make someone mad because they were permanent lines. If I go back there next year I think I will clear those lines out so others can run their lines safely. Let me know what eveyone thinks.

[SLIM]

I dont think there should be any perm lines in a wreck. If you can not place a line and take it out wiht out making a maze, then a class on how to run a reel is needed.

Understand why you did not tak them out. Not your play ground but I would also be asking around if there are any perminat lines in there. If they are to be perminet and a person gets tangeled in them, they could be help responsibel. Then there is the problem of untrained divers following them. Not to bash a WRECK Diver but many do not know the basics of running reels and line placement and how they shouls be ran with the way a room is.

Most do not truly know the art it takes to run lines and reels.

Just my thoughts
SLIM

[CaptnDale]

It is my opinion that permanent lines should almost never be run inside shipwrecks. The reasons are twofold:

1. Old lines inside wrecks are more of an entanglement hazard than any kind of help.

2. Wrecks are not static. They move and change with time. Lines can be cut, broken or trapped with the motion of the wreck. A line that represented a way out last week may lead to a collapsed bulkhead today.

[scububa]

Well, since you're asking for opinions (indicating a search for consensus)...normally I don't chime in just to agree...

I agree with the previous posts. Not your playground, so an effort to understand what is going on is appropriate.

One other point on wreck lines...in a cave the permanent lines are usually where there is only one way to go. Jumps and gaps are pretty standardized. Almost everyone that goes into caves have been thru pretty standardized training. In a wreck, beyond it being a more dynamic structure, the route traveled is more dynamic, too. There are more opportunities to take a different circuit, enter a compartment from a different direction, etc. All leading to permanent lines seeming to be more of a hazard than an aid. How many of them had any line arrows, etc.? I am betting none. Hmmmmm

[DeepDiverBob]

I too was thinking of drawing a comparison to cave diving, but Captain Dale brought up an excellent point that I never really thought of. Those wrecks can and do move with weather, and quicker deterioration than caves.

If the sole argument was to keep untrained people out, then I would argue that point.

[Captain Caveman]

Good question Brett. I agree with everyone that the lines should not be left. I think it's a open invitation to untrained diver to FALLOW ME. I've seen lines left on the Prince William by the helm. I ran my own and found this one to be broken about 20ft in. I can't wait to go to Mac next week.

[do it easy]

I avoid the issue by not running lines at all. Just kidding. As a matter of fact, I ran a line in the bow of the Wisconsin this last weekend. I did notice all lot of left over lines that were scattered about the wreck.

If you are good enough to enter a wreck, you should be good enough to lay line and pick up after yourself.

I think the biggest argument for not leaving lines is the entanglement hazard it leaves for other divers.

[M&P+4]

I'm not a wreck diver - and I don't play one on TV....but it seems to me that permanent lines should be tagged as such and maintained, anything else should be removed....

[h2odragon1]

Cave divers in Fla. run lines to aid others to find their way through the cave system. A ship is more complex, and probably should have lines run to prevent anyone from getting lost. Some lines should be permanent, and maintained by penetration certified divers, with arrows to show ways in and way out.
Excesive lines would be a safety issue, but a diver getting lost is also an is an issue.
SAFETY;SAFETY;SAFETY!!!

[DeepDiverBob]

Cave divers in Fla. run lines to aid others to find their way through the cave system. A ship is more complex, and probably should have lines run to prevent anyone from getting lost. Some lines should be permanent, and maintained by penetration certified divers, with arrows to show ways in and way out.
Excesive lines would be a safety issue, but a diver getting lost is also an is an issue.
SAFETY;SAFETY;SAFETY!!!

I thought this way too, for a while. But in the start of this thread, when Captain Dale pointed out that wrecks can and do shift with the weather, and can give in to time quicker than caves, that permanant lines in wrecks probably inst the best idea.

[scububa]

And, cave divers run their own lines, too. Either from entrance to the main line, jumps/gaps, or new (or unlined) passage, Then they pull them. Again, a strict analog between caves and wrecks doesn't apply IMO.

The only scenario I can vote for is if you are doing multiple dives on a wreck in a trip (expedition). You are on the wreck and are repeatedly going back progressing your penetration. At the end of the expedition, you should pull your lines our. The next team might want to go some where different or the wreck could have deteriorated or shifted. The next team might be next season.

I still see lines in a wreck, run by multiple teams, going multiple directions are more of a hazard.

Cave divers in Fla. run lines to aid others to find their way through the cave system. A ship is more complex, and probably should have lines run to prevent anyone from getting lost. Some lines should be permanent, and maintained by penetration certified divers, with arrows to show ways in and way out.
Excesive lines would be a safety issue, but a diver getting lost is also an is an issue.
SAFETY;SAFETY;SAFETY!!!

[b1gcountry]

With most of the wrecks around here, I'm just happy if they have a decent mooring line. The amount of penetration diving that actually happens in the local wrecks is not enough to maintain permanent lines in the vast majority of them.

Tom