Diving Emergency Management

[reefraff]

Designed for dive professionals (or divers) interested in a comprehensive program of first aid care for dive emergencies, the DAN Diving Emergency Management Provider (http://diversalertnetwork.org/training/courses/demp/index.asp) program integrates four DAN classes into a single eight hour course:

Automated External Defibrillators (AED's) for Scuba Diving
Oxygen First Aid for Scuba Diving Injuries
Advanced Oxygen First Aid for Scuba Diving Injuries
First Aid for Hazardous Marine Life InjuriesI'll be teaching the course at Haigh Quarry over two days, June 28 & 29. Come spend your morning diving and your afternoon learning how to handle complex diving emergencies.

The class is sponsored by the Ralph Erickson Educational Foundation (http://www.reefoundation.org/) and all profits will help their mission to support the education and training of future dive professionals. For those of you who aren't familiar with the name, Ralph Erickson was one of the founders of PADI and a long-time aquatics coach and educator at Loyola University.

For details about the course or to enroll, visit the 25 Fathoms (http://www.25fathoms.com/demp.htm) website or PM me through this board.

[nauifins73]

A course I would love to take. My travel has been stopped until we get the house built. Will you be offering this class again in the future?

[reefraff]

A course I would love to take. My travel has been stopped until we get the house built. Will you be offering this class again in the future?
No firm plans but someday. This is normally a winter class but REEF wanted to do something this summer and it seemed like it might be cool to spend a weekend at the quarry diving and learning.

[MgicTwnger]

Prerequisites??????????

[reefraff]

Prerequisites??????????
A current CPR ticket from any agency - EFR, AHA, ARC, MFA, NSC, ECSI, ASHI, etc., is required. The class is designed for lay providers, that is, people without advanced medical training. If you don't have a current CPR certification card, arrangements can be made to get you that training in time for this class.

The program isn't just for dive professionals, though most often it's DM's and Instructors that take it. It is for serious divers - or at least divers serious about diver safety. If you hold a Rescue Diver (or equivalent) certification, completing this program will qualify you as a DAN Diving Emergency Specialist (http://diversalertnetwork.org/training/courses/des/index.asp).

It's a fun class and you'll definitely learn something, plus there will be plenty of time for diving both days.

[Atlaua]

It's a great class. Your lucky, Steve, that you convinced your shop to run it ;).

[reefraff]

It's a great class. Your lucky, Steve, that you convinced your shop to run it ;).It is a great class. Fun, too.

It's worth noting that though we do teach the course at the shop and the shop has ties to Ralph Erickson (in addition to founding PADI, he also was one of the original owners of the shop,) this class isn't being run by the shop. Instead, it's a fundraising effort being run by the REEFoundation. The shop is donating my time (I get paid but not out of the tuition money) and some other financial support and isn't making any money from this class.

It's an important distinction - the money doesn't go into the store's pocket, it helps support the foundations scholarship activities. So not only will the participants get to learn a lot about dive related first aid, their dollars will support DAN and the REEFoundation, two organizations dedicating to helping divers. Pretty close to cool, in my book.

Spend a couple of days diving and learning how to help an injured diver. That's pretty close to cool in my book, too!

[nauifins73]

What dives are required with this class?

[DeepDiverBob]

What dives are required with this class?

For the Hazardous Marine Life Injuries, you have to go get bit by a fish, turtle, etc, and your buddy has to treat your injury properly. :D

[MgicTwnger]

For the Hazardous Marine Life Injuries, you have to go get bit by a fish, turtle, etc, and your buddy has to treat your injury properly. :D

What bit you? That could explain a lot.:D

[Captain Caveman]

When can this CPR class be arranged? I can make it to a cpr class but not for this class.

[Atlaua]

It's worth noting that though we do teach the course at the shop and the shop has ties to Ralph Erickson (in addition to founding PADI, he also was one of the original owners of the shop,) this class isn't being run by the shop.


Didn't mean to imply anything about shop sponsorship. I spent a lot of time trying to convice 2 shops to run this course and only got to lead it once. I found that shop's tend to think of this as a luxury that customers are not interested in. In other words, if it doesn't lead to another PADI cert then why bother.

After about 18 months of promoting this class with 2 shops I got to teach it one time. Fact is, that you can get 6 DAN certs and 3 PADI certs out of 1 class.

I'm just saying you're lucky to be teaching it in any capacty. I love this class.

James

[DeepDiverBob]

Fact is, that you can get 6 DAN certs and 3 PADI certs out of 1 class.

This is one of those statements that just eats at me. Shouldn't the focus be on the level and amount of training, not the number of cards you get out of it?

[nauifins73]

This is one of those statements that just eats at me. Shouldn't the focus be on the level and amount of training, not the number of cards you get out of it?

People/Divers want proof they have spent the time and money to achieve something.

[nauifins73]

How are you teaching the CPR are part? Through the Medic First Aid we are now teaching both 30:2 and 100 only compressions.

[Atlaua]

This is one of those statements that just eats at me. Shouldn't the focus be on the level and amount of training, not the number of cards you get out of it?

It should but what I'm indicating is that with the number of certs you can hand out you'd think that shops would be all over this program.

[DeepDiverBob]

It should but what I'm indicating is that with the number of certs you can hand out you'd think that shops would be all over this program.

Maybe I am just getting caught up on the wording, but I dont believe any cert should be "handed out." It should be earned. I also believe the more info you bomb students with, the more they will forget. More isnt always better, in my opinion.

However, I am getting away from the point of the thread, and for that, I apologize.

[reefraff]

I get busy for a few days and look at all the fun you guys are having. Some answers and some thoughts (hey, I get to hijack my own thread, don’t I?)…

CPR is a prerequisite for the DEMP course – you have to have a ticket to get into the party. For what it’s worth, EVERYONE should have CPR training. PERIOD. If you don’t have a current CPR certification, I don’t know of any dive shops that don’t offer it – give your favorite a call. Heck, most independent instructors offer CPR these days, if you’d rather not darken the door of a dive shop. It’s probably better if divers get their CPR training from an instructor with an understanding of some of the unusual circumstances that divers face but anything is better than nothing. You can find an EFR instructor here (http://www.emergencyfirstresponse.com/calendar/default.aspx), contact your local American Red Cross here (http://www.redcross.org/), or call your local fire department, EMS unit or hospital.

The official word from the American Heart Association (which sets the standards that the other US agencies follow) is that chest compressions only at a rate of 100 per minute is acceptable (but not optimal) for lay providers without a duty to care. AHA still requires medical professionals or those with a duty to care (which I believe should include dive professionals) to provide 30 chest compressions followed by 2 rescue breaths in five cycles lasting two minutes. For the purposes of the DEMP class, we will be practicing using 30 & 2.

The DEMP course allows people with an immediate need for (or serious interest in) the information that DAN teaches in a number of classes to enjoy the benefits of an integrated approach to the material while also saving some of the time and money required to take the classes one-by-one. The DEMP course isn’t designed for casual participants – it’s a serious course that includes some advanced rescue skills - and it shouldn’t be undertaken by those unwilling or unable to commit to doing the work. I hope I was clear about that in my original post.

There are no dives as part of the class but one of the reasons I split the class up into two sections is so that participants will be able to take a break. I know I get semi-cranky if my gills start drying out and, to borrow a phrase, I don’t want to bomb the students with more information than they can absorb in one sitting. A little break for a dive is almost always a good idea.

Normally we simulate the injuries in the class but if any of the students feel the need to make it more life-like, my suggestion is they strip down to their swimsuit, smear a couple of mashed hot dogs all over their body and take a dip in the quarry. Let the bluegills work them over for a few minutes and then we’ll have some real world Hazardous Marine Life Injuries to work on.

Bob raised a couple of points that I think are interesting and at the crux of an ongoing debate amongst dive educators:

Shouldn't the focus be on the level and amount of training, not the number of cards you get out of it?
...

I also believe the more info you bomb students with, the more they will forget. More isn’t always better, in my opinion.

I agree with both statements but isn’t there some internal tension between these two thoughts? On the one hand, you’ve got PADI (or almost any of the other agencies) providing information on little bite-sized “when you’re ready for it” courses and grinding out lots of cards. On the other hand, you’ve got GUE (or the old quasi-military programs) that include a ton of information through a relatively small roster of courses that most people aren't able to master. Which is better may be subject to some discussion amongst the cognoscenti but the great unwashed masses (well, OK, they’re divers so they’re at least well-rinsed) have made it abundantly clear which method they think is better. I think card-collecting may be a little silly but I’m OK with it as an inherent consequence of the “atomized” training approach. Like our host said, people like a little “atta-boy” when they’ve done good and a card is a pretty easy way to tell them they’re doing well – and to help motivate them to learn more.

For those of you with the inclination, I hope to see you in the course. Seats are still available but don't dawdle too long.

[juls64]

People/Divers want proof they have spent the time and money to achieve something.

Is that why they allow adult children to move back home????

:D