Any thoughts?

[divbum]

Hey it is winter and this forum had no topics...
Just wondering peoples thought, perceptions and opinion of re breathers on this forum.

[ppo2_diver]

Let me state the obvious. YOU'LL DIE AFTER YOU TAKE THE FIRST BREATH OFF ONE!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

But seriously, I'd like to hear what others have to say as well. I've only dove the yellow space box a few times. Needless to say, it didn't live up to it's name. I could never get my trim dialed in. Putting the thing together, it also felt "flimsy" to me. I'd like to hear opinions on the KISS Classic and Meg rebreathers.

[M&P+4]

I think it's another really cool gadget that I can't afford :)

[SLIM]

Well, to me they are tools, I have tried a few and know what I know from others that I trust that have used them for years. Most of the ones I know perfer the Meg but like the idea of how the Optima uses a cartridge, that is smart no packing or dust problems. Each one has its pros and cons. I think that like anything else, what do you plan to use it for and what is the mission. What level are you looking at, a Meg will last for ever and the upgrade of the electronics is easy. The Optima is a good one and is tested in many deep caves and open water and is easy to operate.

Find what you like and dis like about them and I know that there are others that will just flat out say this is better then that and might not be able to give a true explanation.

Just my thoughts.

SLIM

[theskull]

I originally took the Nitrox course just so I could take the Rebreather class, and then got certified on the Draeger Ray. I didn't like diving it, though, as I enjoy controlling my buoyancy with my breath.

Obviously, the Nitrox lead to other things and I've gone pretty far down the OC tech path, but in spite of a great deal of education on the rebreathers they still don't interest me for the diving that I do.

theskull

[DeepDiverBob]

I am very interested in them, and my interest is growing by the day. However, for the diving I am mostly doing right now, it is not worth while to make the investment right now.

[ppo2_diver]

One of the things I have been trying to gather data on is the benefit vs. risk analysis. I love the concept of a CCR, but for the level of dives I'm doing, I can do everything on OC. The CCR's benefits don't really out weigh the risks for my level of diving. This may change in the future.

[scububa]

I'll start out by acknowledging I have never dove one and am still in the kiddy pool with doubles/stages and no trimix

I have a couple of ways of thinking about it...

One of them is theoritical and the other is practical...

On the practical side...

addressing redundancy means you are still carrying a lot of bottles

they are uber expensive in a sport that already sets the bar HIGH

operational nightmares
I have 'seen' three in operation
in FL Keys - 10 minutes into dive sensor compartments flooded
in FL Keys - folks drove from NC and were trying to put everything together as boat got ready to leave, didn't seem to have all the right parts (or seem to know what they even were), thought they had things, boat left, they never got it together or dove, came back, couldn't find items they needed locally
in NC - in dive bunkhouse, new crew shows up and bring in rebreathers, drums of absorber, etc. Futz with the units for 2.5 hours. After that, one still doesn't work. I am in my bunk at 11:30 and after getting bad diagnostic data all evening, puts it together again and I hear, "There it's working!" And I am thinking, you are jumping in 120' of water with something that worked once out of 4.5 hours of messing with it????

I realize that this could be just the few people I saw being marginally competent, but it seems I saw several dive trips ruined and some awful risky behavior taking place. But, sometimes I look at things with too much engineering perspective. Someday we will all be glad at what the pioneers are doing and they maybe mainstream.

[DeepDiverBob]

they probably got a good deal on them from Leisurepro or scubatoys.

If I was doing more, consistent tech diving, I wouldnt have an issue spending the money. (assuming I had the money to spend) But I dont have access to the locations to make it worth while. In the long run, from my very limited understanding, you will save on gas, because you are reusing so much of it. Helps keep you warmer on cold water dives and cuts down on your deco time.

Like anything in diving, there are pros and cons, and I think its up to the person to decide if the risk is worth the reward.

[Atlaua]

I ... got certified on the Draeger Ray. I didn't like diving it, though, as I enjoy controlling my buoyancy with my breath.



Ditto, I did my cert dives, didn't like it, never looked back.

[DeepDiverBob]

Ditto, I did my cert dives, didn't like it, never looked back.

I cant do that. I hated pool sessions when I was doing my OW class(bad example, I still hate pool sessions), I almost didnt go back the second day to finish up. I hate my dry suit after the first dive. I hated doubles after my first dive with them. hated stage bottles. I REALLY hated dry gloves after my first dives with them. I will give the rebreather a few chances before I neglect the idea.

[M&P+4]

how does a rebreather affect your bouyancy?

[DeepDiverBob]

As you know, when you are diving, you can take a big breath, and you will rise, let it out, and you will sink. With a rebreather, your exhaled gas stays in the system, does not get released into the water, so the weighting characteristics stay the same.

[MgicTwnger]

As you know, when you are diving, you can take a big breath, and you will rise, let it out, and you will sink. With a rebreather, your exhaled gas stays in the system, does not get released into the water, so the weighting characteristics stay the same.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you know what you're talking about.

[DeepDiverBob]

If I didn't know better, I'd think you know what you're talking about.

Jealous????

[MgicTwnger]

Jealous????

Errrrr...........ahhhhhhhh........NO!

[M&P+4]

As you know, when you are diving, you can take a big breath, and you will rise, let it out, and you will sink. With a rebreather, your exhaled gas stays in the system, does not get released into the water, so the weighting characteristics stay the same.

I can see how that would take some getting used to. So - do you end up using your BC more activly or are there other methods to control bouyancy?

[Captain Caveman]

I can see how that would take some getting used to. So - do you end up using your BC more activly or are there other methods to control bouyancy?

Wow thats a good Q.

[theskull]

I can see how that would take some getting used to. So - do you end up using your BC more activly or are there other methods to control bouyancy?

Definitely more actively use the BC. And swim more. Swim down, swim up, instead of simply exhale & inhale.

Any of you RB pros have additional techniques?

theskull

[Atlaua]

During my cert dives I did a lot of weight adjusting by picking up rocks of different sizes ;).

[divbum]

During my cert dives I did a lot of weight adjusting by picking up rocks of different sizes ;).
That just really takes away from the experience and training.

[divbum]

I can see how that would take some getting used to. So - do you end up using your BC more activly or are there other methods to control bouyancy?

There is a lot more going on then just the BC. You have loop volume, and PO2 drops, and gas additions to deal with. Sometimes it is just s little burp out the nose, sometimes just the bcd, and sometimes both. And if your diving dry add that into the equation. The hardest part is to erase your mind set. You have X years of doing it X way to forget about. The best part is being able to laugh at yourself when you take a nice big breath - and still run into what you wanted to go over.

[divbum]

I have enjoyed readings these post. Funny that I started off with the Drager dolphins and rays (and sold two that went to MO- wondering if you guys ended up using those in your training, small world). I realized that they would in no way be capable of supporting the dives I was doing or wanted to do technically speaking. And they were not something that I would use on shallow dives (less then 40) or deeper dives, so they became useless to me. And now with the cost of a sport kiss ccr, the US market is disappearing (hence draeger pulling out).
Then the past several years were a education in risk vs reward and some practicality issues. Logistic for expeditions we have been doing was definitely playing a factor. And an education. I am fortunate to have the divers around me or a phone call away to get some serious straight talk about CCR and about accident analysis. I have been really happy with my Ouroboros. It was an education in itself. Working with Kevin Gurr was a great experience and education. My visit to the factory in the UK was great. And I am invited to and going on the Red Sea trip to cross over on the Sentinel at diver and instructor level. This should be another great experience. My teaching demands keep me on OC a lot, but that is really fine. It is still hard to comprehend making a three hour dive and only using 6 - 10 cuft of gas. But as already said, sometime it is not the best tool in the box for the job. Enjoy.

[CaptnDale]

I still remember my first dive on a rebreather. At one point I was swimming along the bottom toward a large rock. Without thinking, I took a large breath and swam right into the rock. If you are an experienced open-circuit diver, it takes a while to relearn (or unlearn) buoyancy control techniques.

[Atlaua]

I still remember my first dive on a rebreather. At one point I was swimming along the bottom toward a large rock. Without thinking, I took a large breath and swam right into the rock. If you are an experienced open-circuit diver, it takes a while to relearn (or unlearn) buoyancy control techniques.

A scary picture of someone trying this for the first time in Cozumel just popped into my head...

[DeepDiverBob]

I apologize for digging this thread up again, however, it is a slow day, so why not.

I had some pool experience with one a few weeks ago, and wow, is it a different experience.

[DeepDiverBob]

A scary picture of someone trying this for the first time in Cozumel just popped into my head...

Boat might have a hard time follow the bubbles as well, eh?

[brettbyers]

Glad you restarted this post, gives me something to do today because I'm very slow at work. I had a chance to talk with Greg about the Ouroboros and he is speaking very highly of it. I have never dove a rebreather but plan to sometime in the future. I know the cost of rebreathers is very high so it has never come to my mind about purchasing one. I know the benifits of gas consumption but could someone help me in what the optimal depth ranges are and how that would benifit my range and style of diving?

[SLIM]

brett

SInce I don't know your depths and limits a CCR will alow you to go as deep as you like if you have the right dilutant and if a solinoid does not stick open or close. a SCR will only allow you go to to the MOD of your drive gas. It will depend onteh brand and function of the RB. Some are constant add and use a orifice and some are more of a add when needed and you go bye the MOD of that gas.

There is so much about RB'S and so many pros and cons for each system and what they are good for. Like I have a SCR and use it down to 280+ but am scared to death doinng that dive with a CCR and if a Solinoid might stick open in the on postion and a electronic might fail. My SCR has no electronics like that.

SLIM

[divbum]

There is so much about RB'S and so many pros and cons for each system and what they are good for. Like I have a SCR and use it down to 280+ but am scared to death doinng that dive with a CCR and if a Solinoid might stick open in the on postion and a electronic might fail. My SCR has no electronics like that.

SLIM
Depending on the unit and features that is not really as bad as you may think, annoying and aborting the dive no less but manageable and again depending on the unit a lot more manageable then you may think.

[skdvr]

Just curious if anyones thoughts or views have changed since the last post to this thread....

Phil

[divbum]

There will be at least 3 different RB's at Mermett next weekend. I am sure if you ask questions at the right time (SI not pre dive) the boys will all talk your ears off. Ouroboros, Sentinel, and KISS Classics.

[skdvr]

They will be interesting to see, BUT I am in no way ready to even think about a RB, or being able to formulate an intelligent question about them. I think that they are interesting to read about, and I like the idea and theory of them, but they are still several years away from me even thinking about one.

Good to know about proper time of asking questions... No need to take someone attention away from something like doing a proper inspection...

Phil