A question for the cave junkies

[Scuba Pete]

Since my plans of training to be a DM were dashed this fall, I've started toying with the notion of getting cavern certified. I'd like to find a local instructor to teach cavern, is there anyone in the st. louis area that any of you would recommend training with? Would I be better off waiting until I move to a bp/w before getting cavern, or is it ok to take it with a bc knowing that'll i'll switch before I go further (if I find out that I enjoy it enough)?

[DeepDiverBob]

My personal recommendation is to get into the gear you are comfortable with, and take the class in that. From what I ahve seen, you can do cavern in a jacket, if you just want the card. But if you are serious about going further with it, I would highly recommend waiting until you have the BP/w. I do know there are a few local guys in St.Louis that teach cavern. If you wanted to go outside St.Louis area, but stay in Missouri, I would say contact Slim here on the board, or Ed down in Poplar Bluff. But I will warn you, if you try and do cavern here in the Midwest, it can take a long time for the conditions and both your schedules to all work out to get it done.

Along these same lines, when I first got into diving, I wanted to take the ice diving class really bad. Chris at my shop told me to not even think about it yet, and go get 100 or so dives logged LOCALLY, before I thought about doing anything like ice or cavern. I thought that was very good advice, and thats exactly what I did, although I still havent done the ice class yet.

[Scuba Pete]

That's the rub, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy it until I try it. I wouldn't say I'm claustrophobic, but I do have a healthy fear of getting stuck in a small opening. I just want to find out if it's a manageable fear or not. I can wait until I move to a bp/w and get used to diving it though.

[do it easy]

I would recommend taking it in a BP/W if you are thinking about continuing- you'll need the gear eventually. If you want to just get a taste to decide, then take the cavern class in a BC.

I took cavern in a jacket BC with a long hose. If you have a good class and a good instructor, you'll be able to make the switch to BP/W on your own.

The change from BC to BP/W is just buoyancy and trim, it doesn't change anything fundamental about how you dive. It's not like adding a scooter or going to doubles.

[terrapinken]

I agree with Bob(again). I did my cavern class with Bob(he was way better). I did it in a jacket style and it was fine, but if you continue cavern or cave diving a BP/W is a must. I too know Ed and he would be great. I am looking forward to taking classes/diving with Slim as I have heard all good things. Mike Heffington is doing a class this fall in the same format Mike, Bob & I did our class in. It was fun and a nice road trip to Florida - One of my favorite memories from days gone by. Check our website for details. Ken

[theskull]

Hey Pete,

Cavern class does not include squeezing through small openings. One of the rules of Cavern diving is openings should be large enough for 2 divers to swim through comfortably together (no restrictions), and typically you dive very large open areas. The squeezing comes much later should you go on to be a Cave diver.

I second Bob's advice to have 100 dives first. Any BC will do as long as you can swim horizontally with good buoyancy and trim while using it. Cavern is a recreational certification, and the only gear requirements are that you use a 5 or 7 foot hose and make some small modifications to remove entanglement hazards from your setup--all of which will be covered in the class.

You really don't even need to switch to a BP/W at the Intro cave level, as that class can be completed diving a single tank with a Y or H valve and 2 independent first stage regulators. If you were to take Intro knowing that you intended to go on to Full Cave, it would be very advisable to do so in BP/W and doubles--and also advisable to have made many practice dives in that gear before starting the class.

I also endorse SLIM as an instructor--especially if you feel you may pursue the Cave training after doing Cavern. But you could also find a Cavern instructor at any of the local dive shops. Just ask.

theskull

[steve2281]

Cavern is a great class, and the skills you learn will serve you well even if you never continue with cave training. It also provides a good introduction to the overhead environment without investing a lot of money. I would recommend taking the class with an experienced, active cave instructor. Although a PADI Cavern cert is usually accepted for further cave training, I believe an active cave instructor will give you a better class than an OPW instructor who teaches cavern as one of many specialities (just my opinion FWIW).

I agree with the other posters: Take the class in gear you are comfortable in. If you are sure that cave or tech diving is in your future, go ahead a get the BP/W.

I did all my training in N FL, and therefore cannot make a recommendation on any midwest instructor. I have dived with Slim and found his skills first-rate.

[SLIM]

First, tanks for all the ones that recomended me. That alone means a bunch to me.

Cavern can be taken with rereational gear. Yes it can be hard to doa class on your schedual up here for I do teach it but at my schedual. You will find that the cavern class will help you decide if that is the way you wish to go and then can decide if you wish to purchase BP/W or a soft pac system.

Let me know if you are intrested. There a a few that can teach cavern through NSS-CDS here in the state but only a few.

SLIM

[terrapinken]

Although a PADI Cavern cert is usually accepted for further cave training, I believe an active cave instructor will give you a better class than an OPW instructor who teaches cavern as one of many specialities (just my opinion FWIW).


I agree with Steve on this, but I want to add there are some great Cavern instructors who are not Cave instructors. I know alot of Cavern instructors who are great cave divers, but are not Cave instructors. (just my opinion FWIW) As with any training, the instructor can make a big impact either way. There are some cave instructors that I would not want to be in the same room with, much less in a cave with. Get refrences from people you know and trust. If they like you, they will point you in the right direction.

[DeepDiverBob]

As with any training, the instructor can make a big impact either way.

I agree with this statement, but I would also add that a well experienced DM or assistant can also speak volumes. They can walk the walk and talk the talk, telling stories of adventures with the students, while the instructor might be busy helping another student who might be having trouble with something.

[terrapinken]

I agree with this statement, but I would also add that a well experienced DM or assistant can also speak volumes. They can walk the walk and talk the talk, telling stories of adventures with the students, while the instructor might be busy helping another student who might be having trouble with something.
Bob is right (again). I meant no disrespect to DM'S or assistants of any kind or title. I should have included them. I am not as snobby as I may appear!!
Ken