St. Louis area dive clubs (everyone is invited)

[Scuba Pete]

The thread about shop closings got me thinking about this. The dive club associated with the shop that I got certified through seems to be having issues. It seems like most of the dives they schedule end up getting canceled due to a lack of interest or no one is available to lead them. I'm not sure how the other clubs in the area are doing, but from the comments from other people, they seem to be in similar shape.

Since we don't have a club in the area that's fulfilling our needs (and if there is one, tell me which one it is so I can join up with them), would anyone be interested in forming an informal club? It wouldn't be affiliated with any shop, just basically those that post on this board and anyone else they'd like to bring along. We can do trips to the quarries and lakes in the midwest, but also plan trips to dive the Oriskany, the wrecks in north carolina, the keys, basically anywhere that people are interested in going.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I'd like to accomplish with this, but it just seems like there really isn't a diving community in this area. There are lots of divers, but everyone seems to basically do their own thing. I figured I'd throw this out there and see what kind of response I get. Maybe this can grow into something useful for everyone involved. Let me know what you think.

[MgicTwnger]

I think this board already is an informal club. We get to know each other and plan trips and get-togethers.
For instance: I put together wreck diving charters by simply reserving the boat and contacting people I know. Stuff like deposits, hotels, and transportation are the individuals' responsibility. I basically just get the ball rolling and round up enough people for the trip, posting it on the board if I come up short.

Also, a lot of us post where we will be diving, or if we are looking for buddies.

This is about as organized as I want to get. :D

[Scuba Pete]

I can understand that. If this does eventually turn into a sort of club, I would have no problems doing the grunt work myself. Getting the info on various dive ops for where people want to go, or getting hotel information, travel info, and all that good stuff. I wouldn't push it onto someone else to do.

I was just thinking how cool it would be if we could get enough people to pick a week and go somewhere like bonaire, or cozumel, or do a liveaboard in some exotic location. I know I'd have more fun if I went down with a large group of people, especially on a liveaboard. I guess it can be planned through the board as well. I'll just have to think about this more. Like I said earlier, it was just a thought that popped into my head after reading another thread.

[Atlaua]

I'm with Ken, sort of. I don't see much difference between what we have here and what you are describing. If I were to get involved with a club I'd want the whole 9 yards. Dives, trips, training, club compressor & equipment, etc. Bacily I'd want a replacement for a dive shop without all the overhead.

James

P.S. I'm planning Cozumel in November with another couple. You're welcome to join in.

[Scuba Pete]

Well, I'm in no position to offer training, unless you want to learn what not to do when diving. Trips and local dives, I would be more than happy to arrange.

It's funny that you bring up a compressor and equipment. A good friend of mine, Bob and Ken met him last weekend, has been trying to figure out a way to start ordering equipment directly from the manufacturers. He's talked to a few reps, and has a store front in IL that he could use as an address, the sticking point so far has been pooling together enough money to place an order. He's also kicked around the idea of getting a compressor. To top everything else, he's got a friend that he does business with that owns an old quarry that's not far away from here, closer than mermet. He's been trying to talk him into selling it, but he's not ready to part with it yet.

I'll have to talk with him after I get back from vacation and see how far he actually got with ordering equipment and see how serious he is about looking into a compressor. Oh, and both of us will probably be diving in this quarry over the summer to check it out. He uses it for fishing, and lets his employees go out there and fish whenever they like, but no one else is allowed on the property. We'll probably end up joining one of their fishing trips and just spend all our time under the water.

[DeepDiverBob]

I'm with Ken, sort of. I don't see much difference between what we have here and what you are describing. If I were to get involved with a club I'd want the whole 9 yards. Dives, trips, training, club compressor & equipment, etc. Bacily I'd want a replacement for a dive shop without all the overhead.

James

P.S. I'm planning Cozumel in November with another couple. You're welcome to join in.

I find it interesting you have twice mentioned that about a compressor. As a DM, I get free air fills. I like my perks. I dont see what a compressor has to do with a dive club. I know when me and theskull are out diving around, I have not seen his GADCO bubbles and my MWS bubbles fight on the way to the surface. I dont mind give Glen money at Mermet for air fills either. I am all for the informal club thing, but I am confused by the compressor remarks.

[Atlaua]

I find it interesting you have twice mentioned that about a compressor. As a DM, I get free air fills. I like my perks. I dont see what a compressor has to do with a dive club. I know when me and theskull are out diving around, I have not seen his GADCO bubbles and my MWS bubbles fight on the way to the surface. I dont mind give Glen money at Mermet for air fills either. I am all for the informal club thing, but I am confused by the compressor remarks.

It's simple really, I'd rather just dive with Dive Club bubbles. Your bubbles may not mind but knowing the owners of both of those shops I don't think either would be happy if you bought them at the other place. The pont of a club is to get the shop out of the picture. So you're not reliant upon a posessive shop owner, or prices that that include retail overhead and salaries.

The only reason I haven't officially gone independant as an instructor is that it requires having gear for your students, a pool etc. As I've said here many times, I'm sick of shop politics, and really tired of being a gift horse. A good club would be a one stop shop for everything but buying gear.

I'd love to be involved with a club that was around to promote diving, quality education and fun, instead of speed, numbers, and profit.

And since we've gone from 8 shops to 4 in the last couple of years, I think they can afford the competition...

James

[DeepDiverBob]

It's simple really, I'd rather just dive with Dive Club bubbles. Your bubbles may not mind but knowing the owners of both of those shops I don't think either would be happy if you bought them at the other place. The pont of a club is to get the shop out of the picture. So you're not reliant upon a posessive shop owner, or prices that that include retail overhead and salaries.

The only reason I haven't officially gone independant as an instructor is that it requires having gear for your students, a pool etc. As I've said here many times, I'm sick of shop politics, and really tired of being a gift horse. A good club would be a one stop shop for everything but buying gear.

I'd love to be involved with a club that was around to promote diving, quality education and fun, instead of speed, numbers, and profit.

And since we've gone from 8 shops to 4 in the last couple of years, I think they can afford the competition...

James

Sounds to me like you would prefer to just have your own shop.

[Atlaua]

Sounds to me like you would prefer to just have your own shop.

I don't know how you get that out of wanting an alternative to a dive shop. I'd rather find another hobby...

The BSAC has been running clubs like this for years...

[DeepDiverBob]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think a club could exist very easily, with members from all shops getting together to dive. I buy my gear from my shop, Bill gets his gear from his shop, Ken gets his from where ever he gets his, and we meet at a given site and just dive, and enjoy the company. (Okay, maybe not Kens company) I understand exactly what you mean by shop politics in this area, but I dont think that would get in the way of any clubs. I know Bill has his fun dive "club", and I have gone to that many times. No problems. My shop has the EMWD program, and Bill has gone to those. So has Heff, no problems. I think it is very doable without shop support.

[MgicTwnger]

I think we're getting hung up on just what constitutes a club and how organized things have to be. People who get out and do a lot of local diving get to know each other, there are just not that many of us. You form friendships and know who you do and do not want to dive with for a variety of reasons. That gets to be the determining factor, not formal club membership. I'm diving as much as I want to on that basis, and if I want to go to exotic warm-water places, I would rather do it on my own or with a couple of buddies without some dive shop nanny running the show.

[Atlaua]

Ok, let's put it this way:

The new diver:
New divers come in 2 forms. Those that want to dive, regularly and locally, and want to learn right and those who want to get certified this weekend for their trip to Jamica next weekend. Dive shops spend too much time with the latter to properly service the former.

The new diver would be able to join the club and hook up with one of the instructors, setup a custom schedule (that works for both) and customized training to fit their needs. Both would benifit because it could be cheaper for the student, more profitable for the instructor and the quality and convience could go way up.
The Regular Diver
The regular diver just want's to dive. He doesn't want to sign up for the shop's tresure hunt or the trip to Kalamzoo to dive. He just wants to go dive every few weeks and have fun, maybe take a trip or too. He can choose from whatever other members are getting together this weekend, fill his tanks and go. One of the club members who can service regs does his gear once a year and he's happy.
The Pro
The pro doesn't get emailed three times a week pressuring him to do a class that was booked with nobody to cover it. Nor does he sign up for a class that has nobody in it. He works out schedules with the members that need his services.
The Club
The club takes in enough money from dues, cuts of training, and a little on air fills to pay for insurance, an occational event, and buy itself a stock of rental gear for the memers/students over the course of time. Eventually if it get's big enough it can put excess into a charity.

That's what I call a dive club. As I said, what you're looking for Bob, we already have here, we just don't call it a club.

James

[Scuba Pete]

Hmm, didn't realize that you meant gear for students when you said a club with equipment. That would be difficult to pull off. Where would the money come from to purchase the equipment? That would be quite an investment for someone.

I'd be interested in a shop free source of education, but the startup costs would be pretty rough I think.

[steve2281]

Man, this is getting complicated. I'd just like to find someone to go diving.

[Atlaua]

Hmm, didn't realize that you meant gear for students when you said a club with equipment. That would be difficult to pull off. Where would the money come from to purchase the equipment? That would be quite an investment for someone.

I'd be interested in a shop free source of education, but the startup costs would be pretty rough I think.

No that would be built up over time. Not an extensive supply, 5 or 6 BC's and regs and probably an O2 kit. Could be done pretty cheap. Just enough for a few new club members to get along until they get their own equipment.

[DeepDiverBob]

Man, this is getting complicated. I'd just like to find someone to go diving.
To me, thats what a club is. Just show up somewhere and dive. I think whats happening here is James is taking the worst side of shops, and I'm taking the best side, and we are trying to meet in the middle. Like I said, we are going to agree to disagree on this. I still think what you are describing is a private shop.

[Scuba Pete]

Well, you answered my question in the post above. See what happens when I type slowly. It's definitely an interesting idea, but I think it would have to be something that starts small then eventually grows to that.

As far as the trips go, there wouldn't be anyone babysitting everyone else. The only the club would do would just make it easier to plan trips and possibly get discounts because more people are going. Once you get there, you do what you wnat to do.

[Atlaua]

James is taking the worst side of shops

I'll agree that things were better with my former shop, but I was a DM there, I have a feeling if you ever got that I you don't want to get your opinions would be closer to mine ;). I told the shops I wanted to continue to be a DM, just have more flexibitilty but...

Anyway the point is, we have the informal get together and dive thing here. If you guys want me to charge you dues, I'd b more than happy to do so ;)

If you're not looking for somthing more then don't. Me I'm looking for somthing inbetween what we have here and what "I have to deal with".

Anyway, this is starting to get a little ScubaBoard'ish so I'll step back. If someone is interested in starting what I consider to be a "real club", I'll help in any way I can. If it's just the informal get together and dive thing, I'm happy with what I've got.

James

[DeepDiverBob]

Anyway, this is starting to get a little ScubaBoard'ish so I'll step back.

James


nah, we kept it civil, and no name calling. Its nice to have a discussion without having an arguement. We should have done this on the boat last month...lol

[Scuba Pete]

Ya, this is nothing like some of the trash that you find on the scubaboards. It's a good discussion, and who knows, it might lead to something down the line.

Now, anyone interested in taking a trip down FL to dive the Oriskany this year?

[sobfrogg]

Now, anyone interested in taking a trip down FL to dive the Oriskany this year?


Now your talking. A trip to the Might "O" this fall after dema would be a blast.
As for air fills, If I am ever diving w/ you folks and we are near the shop I go out of I can arange fills any time after the shop closes. I have a KEY :)..
I would love to get in more short dive trips but working 6 days a week makes it hard..


Anyone wanna do Wazee??

[theskull]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think a club could exist very easily, with members from all shops getting together to dive. I buy my gear from my shop, Bill gets his gear from his shop, Ken gets his from where ever he gets his, and we meet at a given site and just dive, and enjoy the company. (Okay, maybe not Kens company) I understand exactly what you mean by shop politics in this area, but I dont think that would get in the way of any clubs. I know Bill has his fun dive "club", and I have gone to that many times. No problems. My shop has the EMWD program, and Bill has gone to those. So has Heff, no problems. I think it is very doable without shop support.

I no longer have "my" fun dive club. It started as a way for me to have enough buddies to dive whenever I wanted to and developed into a bigger thing associated with the shop I was on staff that has been since bought out. It became a great deal of time and effort on my part, which I was happy to do because it was appreciated by the shop and the divers involved. When we merged with the current shop, they already had a fun dive club of their own and my efforts in that respect were no longer desired since in a sense I would be competing with the existing club. So now I have scaled back to using this board and my e-mail list to secure the buddies I want for the dives I want to do. I don't have a "club" but I have all the diving I want -- plus I am now trained to solo and can make a trip to Table Rock on my own if I don't have a handy buddy.

I know the BSAC model works in Europe, but lots of quirky things work in Europe. I'm very happy with the way things are locally right now, and would welcome SCUBA Pete or most anyone from this board to join me on most of my dive weekends. Typically I put my plans up here in case someone wishes to join unless I expect to be very occupied assisting with a class that weekend.

theskull

[VuDuLou]

...here at the VuDuLounge/ Round Table, we are a loose knit bunch...recently started drifting away from the LDS centered activities as we do every summer with the influx of new blood/ students...there are two or three of us that dive regularly and anyone who wants to come out calls...agree about the comments on shop politics, I for one have no time for that sort of thing...again, as I've said in a previous post somewhere here, I have started looking north for other dive sites, although I'll be diving at my familiar sites here at least one a month...

[terrapinken]

I'm with Ken, sort of. I don't see much difference between what we have here and what you are describing. If I were to get involved with a club I'd want the whole 9 yards. Dives, trips, training, club compressor & equipment, etc. Bacily I'd want a replacement for a dive shop without all the overhead.

James

P.S. I'm planning Cozumel in November with another couple. You're welcome to join in.
I would love to replace my LDS without the overhead!! Ken

[terrapinken]

I find it interesting you have twice mentioned that about a compressor. As a DM, I get free air fills. I like my perks. I dont see what a compressor has to do with a dive club. I know when me and theskull are out diving around, I have not seen his GADCO bubbles and my MWS bubbles fight on the way to the surface. I dont mind give Glen money at Mermet for air fills either. I am all for the informal club thing, but I am confused by the compressor remarks.
Preach on Bob - I find it even more interesting, that there are people who want a club to do things together, but want to find ways around supporting a LDS or quarry. I am with you - Support your LDS/Quarry, but only if they earn it. Glen has earned my money and I only want to earn the business that we do. I believe if you take away your support (time or money) for the FULL TIME LDS/Quarry etc., everyone will lose out. I am not in it for the money, but if I have to lose (more) money, why be in it at all??