St. Louis Diving

[jawisa1]

I am wondering if anyone here has any insight into the issue why so many property owners are so reluctant to allow diving in their quarries. I am asking this because during the last year I have found several good candidates for diving in the St. Louis area but upon contacting the owners I get the same "our insurance will not allow it" answer. I have even offered to sign a libility waiver but to no avail. Does anyone have any information that might clear this up as the one site that is in North St. louis County has two decent looking spring filled qaurries that are at least 40 feet deep and appear to be quite clear.

[CBKinger]

Where are the quarries at in the St. Louis area. I'm from the South and South West County area.

[jawisa1]

They are located right off the Missouri river in far North County.

[murph]

My guess is the same reason OJ can be found "not guilty" of murder, but loose the civil case for wrongful death, and have it cost him millions.

[DeepDiverBob]

You can sign waivers out the ying yang, but from what I am told, they wont stand up in court anyway. Its all about people covering their own butt. I cant say I blame them in this sue happy world. I do wish some of them would relax a little though. I dont think they realize what kind of gold mine they are sitting on.

[M&P+4]

I cant say I blame them in this sue happy world. I do wish some of them would relax a little though.

The mentality is that you 'can' sue instead of 'is it right' to sue. It goes hand in hand with the mentality that something is 'owed' to you and a public lawsuit is 'free' money. It has arguably poisened our society more than helped it.

A private quarry should be treated under the same liablilty rules as public property - use them at your own risk.

[Atlaua]

Seems to me that the thing to do would be to get a number of local divers together and form a corporation. Each share costs, $XXXX and the corporation buys the quarry....

The owners get to dive for free and the corp leases diving rights to local area shops to cover maintanance, etc.

James

[DeepDiverBob]

Or a Divers Union...:eek:

[jawisa1]

Sounds like a great idea. I have contacted several local shops to try to get them together to make a good offer to the property owner but have not heard back from any of them. I don't know for sure if the owner is willing to sell but I would bet that if someone put down a sum of money, they might be interested as I belive that the diving operation could be run without interfering with the owners other operations.

[theskull]

Maybe they're afraid we'll discover the bodies they've been dumping in there.

theskull

[MgicTwnger]

Maybe they're afraid we'll discover the bodies they've been dumping in there.

theskull
I could show them how to dump the bodies so they'll never be found. I'm from New Jersey.:cool:

[murph]

HA! Maybe! My boss sold a working mine last year for $6M. He mentioned something close to the same thing.... concrete shoes...

[skip]

If it were mine....no one would get in!

who wants a bunch of strangers, especially odd-ball scuba divers who can't find an ocean, swimming around in my pristine private waters. I didn't buy the quarry and the land for others to invade and am already having enough trouble with yahoo's who can't read "No Hunting, No Fishing, No Trespassing."

git off my land and don't come back.

as a diver, it's a shame, but I really doubt that insurance concerns are the problem. we've learned that as long as you don't charge money for entry, provide a gate and give keys to friends for access (without condoning any specific activity), then the insurance issue is no more than any homeowner needs.

You may not anyone to help buy the land/quarry, but what about a lease from owner for access and specific uses? Owner released from liability and makes some money and still owns the land....

-skip

[jawisa1]

I found another possible location to talk to the owner in Defiance MO off highway 94 and Highway DD. This site is also part of a quarry that appears to be quite nice. Take a look. Anybody have a contact at this location that could help gain access?

[murph]

A quick google search for rock quarry defiance mo shows 2 rock quarries near by.

Lafarge Rock Quarry (636) 946-0004 2000 S River Rd, St Charles, MO
Dawson Quarry (636) 583-4002 5662 Highway 47, Union, MO

I know this isn't exactly the address that you've listed, but I'd be willing to bet they know something about it. Trying one of these 2 or both may be a good place to find some history. Both of these listed quarries are about 15 miles from Defiance, MO.

[murph]

Lafarge North America Inc.
Highway 94 And Dd Defiance
Defiance, MO 63341

(636) 798-2505

[murph]

I spoke with Josh - the plant manager of the Defiance Quarry this morning. And despite my best efforts, my requests were denied. He did say that they do occasionally allow the local fire/rescue to dive there, they would not allow any one else to dive there due to the risks and liabilities. I explained that there were several divers always looking for new places to dive, that we were all experienced and knew the risks involved with such a sport - but it didn't matter. Maybe if someone knows someone a little higher up in the Lafarge chain, they could get some access....

The company I work for does a lot of business with Lafarge in other areas, but not directly with this mine. We deal with them in Joppa, IL, Rockport, IN, and Owensboro, KY.

[jawisa1]

Murph,

Thanks for making the call. Maybe your contact with Lafarge Corporate might be able to get them to allow it. Would they possible be interested in leasing the quarry side that was filled and therefore not in operation?

[murph]

Hmmm.... I'll see how high up I can get and approach it that way. I'll need to put together a presentation/plan on this to make an effective serious lease proposal. - what kind of money are we talking? Long term lease? Short term? Private use or public? Would a local dive shop be willing to pitch in on this? If we can prove someone has some dive shop experience it would help with the liability side.

We have a staff meeting tomorrow night an I can bring it up...where exactly is this quarry?

[Atlaua]

I know the owner of my shop has been seriously thinking of buying a quarry for a while now. I could talk to him about it.

There is a certain chicken/egg thing here. Nobody would be willing to spend money on a lease without doing some dives to check it out and make sure it's worth it.

[jawisa1]

I know that the owner of The Great American Dive Shop has been actively searching for a local site and that they have money available to puchase. I will send them an e-mail also to see if they might be interested.