Argon Setup

[DeepDiverBob]

I finally broke down and ordered my equipment for my argon set up. I hope to have it put together sometime this week. I was using my Mk2 on my stage bottle, but since I use it sometimes as a primary, I have decided to replace it with a MK17, and I will use the MK2 on my argon bottle.

TS, I havent used those straps yet. Mike forgot to bring his bottles last week, and I forgot to remind him. If you need them back this week, let me know and I will get them to you. If not, I am hoping to get in the water somewhere next weekend, especially since it appears I have a 3 day weekend with the holiday on Monday.

[skip]

I too have recently purchased an argon setup. I've been debating whether to mount it like a light canister, on the waist belt on the right, between the backplate and the light canister (which is slid on second), or to plate-mount it. I need room for an AL80 stage on the left, and a AL40 deco on the right (double 130's on the back). I carry reels on a d-ring as far back on the waist belt as I can reach, on the left side (and spg clipped there too, and the stage tank).

I like the idea of being able to remove the argon bottle at will. I modified a dive-rite deco mount, soft bands sewn in two loops with a plastic connector to go around valve, but am thinking of steel bands and 2-inch webbing to mount it just like the canister light.

I am using a valve-first stage regulator all in one (no chance of breathing off this), with prv and short hose, uipside down on the waist belt (right side). There's also a d-ring on the right side waist to attach the deco bottle, it's behind the argon bottle, between it and the backplate, hard to reach.

6 cubic foot bottle. almost cute.

any suggestions? comments? help?

-skip

[Captain Caveman]

Nice, Im looking to get a set up as well. Im looking at a BP setup or connecting it to my single tank for now.

[SLIM]

Use mine strapped to t he tanks on the left side. It does not get in the way of having 3 or 4 stages on. I have not had any problems with geting stuck in any of the caves or springs around here in the ozarks. Some that have not been dove in years and have tight areas, if you can get through with a stage then it wont be a problem.

I have a MK2 with a OPV and screws right intot he valve.

SLIM

[mike b]

I can second what Slim stated. I have a 14cf mounted on the left side tank and I never even notice that it is there (even with multiple stages). I have tried an argon bottle mounted on the waist webbing several different ways and hated all of them. I could not get it out of the way on my waist. That is why I finally mounted it on my tanks. YMMV. Mike

[do it easy]

OK, I guess I'll join the bandwagon- I have an LP14 mounted on my leftside backplate. I don't notice it in the water. I think that an AL6 would disappear when mounted on the backplate.

[DeepDiverBob]

Mine is a AL14. I forgot to mention that I think.

[do it easy]

And I forgot to mention that I attach mine with a loop of line tied to the bottom of the backplate to trap the valve and a loop of 1/4" bungee attached higher up on the backplate to trap the tail of the tank. The bottom loop is large enough for the valve to fit through, but too small for the tank.

It's cheap and easy to remove, since the loops aren't tied to the backplate, just trapped by the holes. It works for me, although I don't know how slick it looks... :D

[MgicTwnger]

It's cheap and easy to remove, since the loops aren't tied to the backplate, just trapped by the holes. It works for me, although I don't know how slick it looks... :D

Don't be modest, Tony. Everything looks slick on you!:D

[skip]

When mounted on back tanks is the argon bottle "upside down"? or valve end up? hose runs over shoulder, or comes around wing?

I tried to butt-mount on plate, but the 130's are too long and the bottle gets between my butt and the bottom of the tanks (most uncomfortable). I was concerned that mounting on the plate would be a similar problem (argon bottle now between back tanks and my shoulder blade), but right now have it set up for either waist belt mount or mounting on side of back plate.

I do have a mount for the tanks, but thought it "stuck out" too far and would be a problem. After reading that many of you mount on the back gas tank(s), guess I'll put it there and see how it feels to me!

However I do like the idea of being able to get to it during the dive, remove it at will easily with no tools (during dive and between dives), remove all hardware along with the bottle (so when not using, no unused attachment hardware remains on rig). With these "rules" it gets harder to find a good place to put it!

-skip

[reefraff]

I mount a 6cf bottle upside down on the left waist strap, using a loop of 2" webbing attached to the cylinder with a couple of SS screw bands. I originally used a large loop so that I could slide the cylinder on and off over the buckle but that made it pretty sloppy so I went to plan "B" and cut the loop and installed velcro on the ends. It sits snug now and is secure enough (the velcro will eventually fail but the strap is cheap enough to replace long before that happens) to not worry about it falling off but easy to remove if I need to. The loop is still loose enough to allow the bottle to be moved forward/backward on the waist strap and so that it doesn't interfere with the hang bottles.

Mounting it on backgas cylinders worked fine and was marginally more comfortable but I had problems with it catching on things inside the wrecks, which sucked.

Mounting it on the backplate was marginally more comfortable but I had problems with it coming out of the holster, which sucked.

Given the square profiles I usually dive, the 6 is enough gas for at least a couple of dives to 200ft. Past that and I bring along a 14cf bottle to use to purge the suit with, which extends the range of the 6 considerably.

I use one of the integrated valve/first stage regulators that I bought from TDL, with the IP set at about 100psi. It's cheap, has a tiny profile and has been reliable but, unless you know how to work on regulators, parts and service are very problematic.

[mike b]

Hey Skip. If you mount the argon bottle on the side of your left tank, the valve should point down. This will allow you to route the hose under the bottom of the wing and back up under your waist webbing before attaching it to the inflator. This keeps everything nice and streamlined. Try this link http://www.gue.com/Projects/WKPP/Equipment/equipmentimages.htm.

[skip]

Thanks for the GUE site. My gear configuration is "near-dir." I use the left post for the inflation hose (BC), and the right post for suit inflation. DIR is the opposite. I also carry the primary cave light on my right hand, not crossing the cord over from right waist (cannister) to left hand.... And I put reels on the same D-ring as SPG (left wasit d-ring). This muddles up that side (especially with stage under left arm - clipped to same d-ring at bottom), but after a few learning trials, it's easy to follow the hose to the spg clip. And I have two chest d-rings on each strap (4 total). The top two on each side are "extra" to clip reg, light, tools, etc., temporarilly, or to move top clip of stage/deco bottles.

Well, I have the stuff to mount on waist belt and the stuff to mount on backplate, but no cam bands to mount the argon bottle on the tanks directly....seems like there is no one "right" way, but three different possibilities. Time to dive the rig and see which one works for me!

-skip

[theskull]

Thanks for the GUE site. My gear configuration is "near-dir." I use the left post for the inflation hose (BC), and the right post for suit inflation. DIR is the opposite. I also carry the primary cave light on my right hand, not crossing the cord over from right waist (cannister) to left hand.... And I put reels on the same D-ring as SPG (left wasit d-ring). This muddles up that side (especially with stage under left arm - clipped to same d-ring at bottom), but after a few learning trials, it's easy to follow the hose to the spg clip. And I have two chest d-rings on each strap (4 total). The top two on each side are "extra" to clip reg, light, tools, etc., temporarilly, or to move top clip of stage/deco bottles.

Well, I have the stuff to mount on waist belt and the stuff to mount on backplate, but no cam bands to mount the argon bottle on the tanks directly....seems like there is no one "right" way, but three different possibilities. Time to dive the rig and see which one works for me!

-skip

Stroke! LOL. Sounds remarkably like my setup.

Don't need cam bands to mount argon on the tank. Halcyon makes a wonderful set of velcro straps called the OctoGrip system. It's what SLIM & I both use, and you can check it out here http://www.wreckdiversupply.com/shop.html or at your local Halcyon/GUE shop.

theskull

[skip]

Stroke! Ok, so now you now my dirty little secret! ;)

The halcyon type argon bands are for the 14cf argon bottle, the mount for the 6cf is the one I have and it goes on the backplate using screws. I guess the problem I have is being a stroke! I carry my reels on the left d-ring with the spg (instead of the dir way of clipping reels to the butt d-ring on the crotch strap - ball bangers). It works fine, but not with the argon in the way. I moved the bottle to the right side, but now I can't get to the O2 deco bottle (which I clip to a right side waist d-ring (the argon bottle is in the way of that d-ring).

I would move it to the tanks, which would move it back further and allow access to d-rings, but I can't find a good way to attach the smaller bottle. I suppose I should have gone with the larger bottle, wreck-style.

So....being the stroke that I am, I put steel screw bands (hose clamps) on the 6cf argon bottle with a belt loop attached, just like the cannister light and now slide the bottle on the right side waist belt, then slide the cannister light on after it. The little argon bottle is about the size of the cannister.

To clip the O2 bottle I put the d-ring on the argon bottle using one of the hose clamps and one of those of d-ring holders, so that now the O2 deco bottle clips off on the d-ring on the argon bottle which is mounted on the waist belt. Whew! does that make any sense?

I haven't dove it yet, so may not like it, but walking around the house it works fine. And I really do like the idea of having it in front me, instead attached to backmounted tanks. I also dive sidemount and this configuration will work with my side-mount rig too (at least walking around the house).

Now if they'd just get this darn tooth fixed so I could go diving again....they're killing me here!

-skip

[do it easy]

ooops never mind... :D

[ppo2_diver]

I just used a length of 2" webbing, bolted it to the backplate, and created a loop of bungee at the bottom of the plate to hold the valve. Works great and I don't even notice it is there and have no problems with 2 bottles on one side.

[theskull]

Stroke! Ok, so now you now my dirty little secret! ;)

The halcyon type argon bands are for the 14cf argon bottle, the mount for the 6cf is the one I have and it goes on the backplate using screws. I guess the problem I have is being a stroke! I carry my reels on the left d-ring with the spg (instead of the dir way of clipping reels to the butt d-ring on the crotch strap - ball bangers). It works fine, but not with the argon in the way. I moved the bottle to the right side, but now I can't get to the O2 deco bottle (which I clip to a right side waist d-ring (the argon bottle is in the way of that d-ring).

I would move it to the tanks, which would move it back further and allow access to d-rings, but I can't find a good way to attach the smaller bottle. I suppose I should have gone with the larger bottle, wreck-style.

So....being the stroke that I am, I put steel screw bands (hose clamps) on the 6cf argon bottle with a belt loop attached, just like the cannister light and now slide the bottle on the right side waist belt, then slide the cannister light on after it. The little argon bottle is about the size of the cannister.

To clip the O2 bottle I put the d-ring on the argon bottle using one of the hose clamps and one of those of d-ring holders, so that now the O2 deco bottle clips off on the d-ring on the argon bottle which is mounted on the waist belt. Whew! does that make any sense?

I haven't dove it yet, so may not like it, but walking around the house it works fine. And I really do like the idea of having it in front me, instead attached to backmounted tanks. I also dive sidemount and this configuration will work with my side-mount rig too (at least walking around the house).

Now if they'd just get this darn tooth fixed so I could go diving again....they're killing me here!

-skip

ppo2's method sounds like a good one. Your new method may work for you, too. You'll find out soon enough when that tooth heals.

I carry my O2 on the right side, too, so I totally understand your situation. My preferred place to carry my jump reels/spools is either clipped to the ring on the top clip of the stage bottle (if I'll be carrying the stage) or on my left shoulder D-ring (if I'll be dropping the stage). I carry my safety reel on my right waist D-ring, which is very accessible even with the O2 clipped to that ring as well.

If you want a novel approach, one of the divers on my Doria trip mounted his argon bottle to his manifold with bungies. It laid right across the valves, with the inflator hose coming over the left shoulder down to the suit inflator valve. All knobs were reachable, the Argon was very easy to attach and detach, and it sure worked for him. You know those N Atlantic wreck divers--whatever works, works.

theskull

[skip]

Hey! Now I like that! I put the bottle back there, on the manifold, and then tried in the space between the tanks, but both locations looked like it would be the first place to hit stuff. And I'm really trying to keep everything where I can reach it, remove it, change it out, and/or replace easily during the dive.

Well it's only a matter of days before I'll be back in the water, just in time for an ice storm! Dang!

-skip

[steve2281]

The argon discussion was informative. In fact, I've been thinking about setting one up myself. My question for those using argon: are you diving helium-based mixes?? If not, does argon offer a significant advantage over inflating the suit with air?? IOW, is it worth the trouble and expense??

[skip]

I know you asked those who dive argon, but from my readings, it seems that argon is best when making long dives and/or long deco in waters in the low 40'sF or less, no matter the other options. If on trimix, the helium conducts heat away from the body, and thus even air would be warmer, but argon is warmer than air. So, the more helium in the mix, the colder the water, the longer the bottom time, argon becomes progressively more desirable.

I've read that the difference between argon and air is so minimal that humans should not be able to tell the difference. I've heard argon divers say different. But argon versus trimix is a different thng. Argon now makes a difference within human sensory ability.

I'd say if you are comfortably warm, no shivers on the diving you are doing, then argon would not be worth it. But if you are ending dives because you are too cold for deeper or more deco, then maybe it's time.

-skip

[theskull]

The argon discussion was informative. In fact, I've been thinking about setting one up myself. My question for those using argon: are you diving helium-based mixes?? If not, does argon offer a significant advantage over inflating the suit with air?? IOW, is it worth the trouble and expense??

Pretty much mandatory in cold water when diving Helium. Well, you need to carry an inflation gas other than your He anyway, so might as well use the best for an extra $.15 per cubic ft.

When not diving a Helium mix, I only bother hooking up my argon if the air and the water are very cold and the dive is going to be long, especially if there will be deco stops involved--get colder when you hover there doing nothing. Even then, I only do it because I have it--I wouldn't go to the expense of buying all the necessary gear if I didn't ever dive Helium. An extra layer of undergarment will do you just as well as the argon if breathing air or Nitrox (in my experience).

theskull

[reefraff]

The argon discussion was informative. In fact, I've been thinking about setting one up myself. My question for those using argon: are you diving helium-based mixes?? If not, does argon offer a significant advantage over inflating the suit with air?? IOW, is it worth the trouble and expense??

Yes, when diving high-He mixes, I use Ar for suit inflation. If its a short dive in warm water, I might not make the effort but all the Ar stuff, including the supply bottle and the whip live in the truck so it isn't much trouble.

When diving on air or EAN, Ar doesn't make a great difference and isn't worth the cost. Then, again, once you have all the Ar stuff in place, it can be less trouble to use Ar than anything else - no need to look for a supply bottle and no need to have to remember to purge the suit bottle before the next dive...

Of course, you can't use high-O2 mixes for suit gas - combined with methane you have an explosive atmosphere. ;)

[DeepDiverBob]

Stroke! LOL. Sounds remarkably like my setup.

Don't need cam bands to mount argon on the tank. Halcyon makes a wonderful set of velcro straps called the OctoGrip system. It's what SLIM & I both use, and you can check it out here http://www.wreckdiversupply.com/shop.html or at your local Halcyon/GUE shop.

theskull

I am leaning towards this set up, based 99.8% on your recommendation. Just out of curiosity, what are some other alternatives?

[skip]

Golem Gear has something very similar if not the same (but no H logo, no logo at all), and it works with 6cf up to 19cf bottles, and it's about 24 bucks cheaper ($40.00). www.golemgear.com (http://www.golemgear.com) Halcyon's only works, or so they say, with the 14cf bottle.

Also, dive rite has a backplate attachment for argon. I don't remember the price. they have two sizes, one for the smaller bottles and one for the larger bottles. www.diveriteexpress.com (http://www.diveriteexpress.com)

I made one out of screw clamps, d-rings, and carabiners, but it's too floppy and I really don't like the hard connection.

This weekend I will be testing three mounting positions - golem gear tank mount, dive-rite's backplate mount, and my homemade waist-belt mount.

We don't have any argon close enough for me to get that, so for now my "argon" is air!

-skip

[steve2281]

I am leaning towards this set up, based 99.8% on your recommendation. Just out of curiosity, what are some other alternatives?

Cam band, 2 hose clamps, few inches of webbing. Totat cost $2 (if you already have the cam band(s)).

[DeepDiverBob]

Don't need cam bands to mount argon on the tank. Halcyon makes a wonderful set of velcro straps called the OctoGrip system. It's what SLIM & I both use, and you can check it out here http://www.wreckdiversupply.com/shop.html or at your local Halcyon/GUE shop.

theskull

I finally broke down and ordered it. Figured I better, since I am giving yours back to you tomorrow.