What to do???

[M&P+4]

The only chance I could dive this weekend was with the lds with an open water class. After all the skills were done I took a pair for their 'tour' to burn up some air - we stayed well within the boundaries of the flags. On our way back on of the students swam in front of me and headed towards deeper water, the other stayed behind me in 10 to 15 feet....I tried to keep both of them in sight but that is tough to do with only 12' of vis so I went after the guy to make sure he didn't keep going (it was all I could do to keep up). I finally caught him and sent him to the surface to find the other guy who had surfaced thankfully. I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is go after the wanderer - what else could I have done?

[DeepDiverBob]

Sounds to me like you did the right thing. Sometimes, a choice has to be made. Sometimes there isnt a right or wrong one. Thankfully, this time, it all worked out okay.

[juls64]

The only chance I could dive this weekend was with the lds with an open water class. After all the skills were done I took a pair for their 'tour' to burn up some air - we stayed well within the boundaries of the flags. On our way back on of the students swam in front of me and headed towards deeper water, the other stayed behind me in 10 to 15 feet....I tried to keep both of them in sight but that is tough to do with only 12' of vis so I went after the guy to make sure he didn't keep going (it was all I could do to keep up). I finally caught him and sent him to the surface to find the other guy who had surfaced thankfully. I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is go after the wanderer - what else could I have done?

It is really a matter of using your judgement, and it sounds like it worked just fine. Depending on conditions and the ability of the students themselves, instead of leaving the one, you could have signalled him to surface before leaving to find the wanderer. He surfaced anyway which was the right move on his part.

By ditching one to find the other, you could have ended up looking for them both. I know at Pearl Lake, where we often dive, the vis is so poor that when I tour with the students I have one on each side of me. In the conditions there, divers can become separated in the kick of a fin, so this way I can keep an eye on them both and not give myself whiplash by looking all around so frequently.

Quite a bit of what we do is judgement, there just aren't textbook answers for everything. It sounds like you did fine though!

[DeepDiverBob]

When I am doingmy tours at Rolla, it is usually just a 20 foot wall dive. I tell them to keep the wall on their right, stay in their buddy teams, and I generally stay above them, to make sure they dont bolt.

[M&P+4]

I was pretty frustrated with the guy - mostly because I had just told them to stay behind me and he swam past me and had no idea where his partner was.

I like the idea of hanging between the two - over them would be OK too if they were allowed to wander as a pair.

[DeepDiverBob]

It all depends on your particular training dive site, and how you feel comfortable watching them. I like being above them, because I can see both of them at all times, and even more than 2 if need be, and can stop them from bolting. When I am doing an advanced class at Table Rock, I like to be the depth policeman. If the dive plan is no deeper than 50 foot, I will hang out at the 50 foot mark, and make sure nobody goes past me.

[theskull]

. . . When I am doing an advanced class at Table Rock, I like to be the depth policeman. If the dive plan is no deeper than 50 foot, I will hang out at the 50 foot mark, and make sure nobody goes past me.

So there ARE SCUBA Police!

What is your enforcement tool? Speargun? Turn off their air? Wag a dead crawfish at them? Cut their air hose (a la Sea Hunt)?

;)

theskull

[theskull]

The only chance I could dive this weekend was with the lds with an open water class. After all the skills were done I took a pair for their 'tour' to burn up some air - we stayed well within the boundaries of the flags. On our way back on of the students swam in front of me and headed towards deeper water, the other stayed behind me in 10 to 15 feet....I tried to keep both of them in sight but that is tough to do with only 12' of vis so I went after the guy to make sure he didn't keep going (it was all I could do to keep up). I finally caught him and sent him to the surface to find the other guy who had surfaced thankfully. I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is go after the wanderer - what else could I have done?

Perfect response. Good work.

theskull

[DeepDiverBob]

So there ARE SCUBA Police!

What is your enforcement tool? Speargun? Turn off their air? Wag a dead crawfish at them? Cut their air hose (a la Sea Hunt)?

;)

theskull

That is highly confidential.

[Atlaua]

After all the skills were done I took a pair for their 'tour' to burn up some air...the students
I have one big question here. Your profile says open water diver. IIRC you've done advanced but, I'm don't recall hearing anything about you being in a professional level course.

If this is correct, the instructor screwed up big time. If anything had happned, he would have been raked over the coals, at the least. As for you, I recommend not getting yourself in that situation again.

It's not a matter of skills, it's a matter of liability. The instructor has professional liability insurance (that may or may not cover him since it appears he violated standards). A DMC (or equivalent) is a "student" and is covered legally by that distinction. Honestly I'm not sure where you would have stood if something went wrong, but with a house, wife and kids, I wouldn't want to find out :).

As far as what to do, I learned an important lesson in control in my very last session as a DMC. Blue water is nice, but unavailable around here, so you have to maintain control anyway you can. For me that means, 1 instructor/DM per 2 students in low vis water. Don't try to keep them both in site, keep them both in reach, even if you have to hold on to them and force them to be good buddies.

All that being said, as TS said, great job. Was it the right choice? Who knows. Do you continue to take care of the responsible student or abandon him to keep the idiot safe? Tough call. The right answer is, if it worked, it was right :).

James

[Atlaua]

What is your enforcement tool? Speargun? Turn off their air? Wag a dead crawfish at them? Cut their air hose (a la Sea Hunt)?

I think he threatens to tell them graphic stories about his new P-valve.

[juls64]

I think he threatens to tell them graphic stories about his new P-valve.

Why does that make me picture something like the old western comedy thing where the gun doesn't fire and they take a look into the barrel?

[juls64]

When I am doingmy tours at Rolla, it is usually just a 20 foot wall dive. I tell them to keep the wall on their right, stay in their buddy teams, and I generally stay above them, to make sure they dont bolt.

That is a good idea, to help them develop buddy skills and start assuming a little responsibility for it. The vis doesn't always allow for that, but I will keep it in mind for the right opportunities.

[M&P+4]

I have one big question here. Your profile says open water diver. IIRC you've done advanced but, I'm don't recall hearing anything about you being in a professional level course.

James

I was hoping that this wouldn't come up, but since it did...no, I'm not any more that open water certified. I went along because it was the only opportunity to dive that weekend and I do enjoy helping out - whether it is just loading and unloading equipment, helping someone figure out their gear or just being an extra set of eyes.

With the first dive I was to stay with the instructor and watch two and keep him in sight - hindsight being what it is - I should have followed this for the second dive but didn't. There were six students, a DM and me...one more thing that I learn by doing it wrong. I will still offer to help out but will be more cautious with what I do (and don't do). My goal is to continue with classes and get (at the least) my DM - it may take some time though to get schedules to work out.

Lyle

[M&P+4]

Why does that make me picture something like the old western comedy thing where the gun doesn't fire and they take a look into the barrel?

how do you get that picture out of your head???

[theskull]

I was hoping that this wouldn't come up, but since it did...no, I'm not any more that open water certified. I went along because it was the only opportunity to dive that weekend and I do enjoy helping out - whether it is just loading and unloading equipment, helping someone figure out their gear or just being an extra set of eyes.

With the first dive I was to stay with the instructor and watch two and keep him in sight - hindsight being what it is - I should have followed this for the second dive but didn't. There were six students, a DM and me...one more thing that I learn by doing it wrong. I will still offer to help out but will be more cautious with what I do (and don't do). My goal is to continue with classes and get (at the least) my DM - it may take some time though to get schedules to work out.

Lyle

Lyle,

Would you be willing to dive with someone who knows how to dive but is not certified? If so, what you did here is no worse than that--at least from your perspective--and it happens a LOT in the diving world. So don't feel bad.

If an incident occurred in this scenario, could you be sued? Yes, you could. But no more so or with any more liability than if you were diving with a certified buddy who had an incident and he and/or his family decided to start suing people. Your responsibility would be no greater or less. And the lawyer is more likely to go after the instructor and the dive shop, who are presumed to have insurance, than a plain vanilla diver like you.

Now, from the instructor's point of view--he is violating training standards, and faces several risks by allowing you to dive with his students. These range from having his qualifications suspended after a complaint that he violated standards to being sued in the event of an incident --and facing the costs of the lawsuit on his own, since his liability insurance will not cover him if he was violating standards during an incident.

Still, your scenario is very common because:
*Our sport is very safe and incidents are extremely rare.
*Instructors tend to be understaffed and appreciate extra unpaid help.
*A diver who is known to be a good and safe diver by an instructor is often trusted to look after a student who is showing a natural ability to dive.
*Helping out with classes tends to be a first step toward entering a Divemaster program.

As in all diving situations, know and weigh the risks involved in any given dive plan or dive buddy, and accept the risks you feel comfortable with. Then dive safe and have fun.

Safe diving to you,

theskull