How much would you spend on a used AL80?

[M&P+4]

For this poll let's assume that the tank is an AL80 manufactured by Luxfer or Catalina after 1990 with a current hydro and visual. THe tank is in good shape with no significant damage.
under $40
$41 to $60
$61 to $80
$81 to $100
over $101

[theskull]

About $40, but only if I had reason to believe that the current owner had taken good care of it.

theskull

[CaptnDale]

There is no significant difference between a new aluminum tank and an old one. Tanks are commodity items and looks don't count. The wholesale value of a new tank with valve is about $100 to $110. I would take the valve off and look inside. If it is clean and the valve works smoothly, I would discount the value by the time left on the hydro and negotiate down from there.

[reefraff]

Steven's tank value calculator:
+ Replacement cost (not original price, but what it's worth, new, today)
- The cost of a hydro (won't buy a used tank without one)
- Visual cost (or value of my time to do my own)
- Valve rebuild cost (or value of my time to do my own)
- Discount (incentive to buy used instead of new, approximately 1/3 of replacement cost)
- Time and aggravation
= Value

Or, in the case of an aluminum tank that I don't have to ship or drive to collect:
+ $145.00
- 25.00
- 15.00
- 15.00
- 50.00
- 00.00
= 40.00

How badly you need the tank and how deep your pockets are will impact the value of your time and the value of the discount and may mean the used tank has a higher value.

[Atlaua]

Let me translate for RR and TS....

Personally, I've scoured EBay and I've never found an AL tank that's worth the difference over new....

If you know a buddy who just wants to get ridf of a tank for nothing, go for it, otherwise....

Well, let's face it, $130 new is worth a whole lot of piece of mind... I won't go into details but I got a great non-diving example of that this weekend...

James

[scububa]

Seems there are more variables than one would think for such a basic item.
If the tank is 9 years old vs. 1 year old...
If the tank is just hydro'd or just about out...
If you absolutely have something else to do with the $ you might save...
If you can stand to dive with a used, cosmeticaly challanged item...

Is RR's cost analysis consistent with the situation set forth? If a tank is in hydro, would you have one done anyway? If so, why? If the tank is in vis, why do another? And using the poll conditions, why figure the valve is bad? It seems that you'd never be able to use a rented tank without taking all the upfront steps. So, would that make $95 the value? (for a with a tank in current hydro and visual and in good shape with no significant damage).

A lot of items have a significant charge built in for the warranty. When you buy it used, the warranty is usually not transferable. So, there is a real loss of value. That is what is behind much of the 'rule of thumb' for a third less or half less, etc. The next significant issue is how much life has been lost out of the product. ( A one year old pair of well used shoes probably has much less of it's life left than a well used 80AL.) Then there is required maintenance amortized over the period of use. (Current hydro could only have one year left, where a new tank has five.) Then you always have to work in your own value of a new vs. used item.

If you bought one of my used 80ALs, you'd be getting a nicer tank than one from an operator in Cozumel, even though they both fit the poll conditions. To me, I hardly think the value of both is the same.

[M&P+4]

What spurred this question was my quest for more tanks - specifically an add for a 'steel 80 cubic foot tank, $140'.

Turned out the owner must figure that if it isn't plastic it's steel. When I met with them I explained how to read the stampings and offered them $80 for their tank. It was a year and a half old, had a tank protector and looked brand new although was six months out of visual. I absolutely hate dickering and avoid it at an expense. Hindsight being what it is, I should have (and meant to) offered them less.

[reefraff]

Some very good points...

Seems there are more variables than one would think for such a basic item.
If the tank is 9 years old vs. 1 year old...
(Although how the tank has been used can be more important than the age - as you illustrate with your Coz example.)

If the tank is just hydro'd or just about out...
(Not particularly relevant, I'm going to hydro it anyway.)

If you absolutely have something else to do with the $ you might save...
If scarcity of funds is driving a purchasing decision for a discretionary item, especially one that involves safety issues, I'll usually opt to forego the purchase.

If you can stand to dive with a used, cosmeticaly challanged item...
(I'd like to say looks don't matter but...I remember when I purchased my first tanks and how I couldn't wait to get them banged up so that I would look like a "real" diver. These days, I've got a few more miles under my belt and a couple of dozen tanks in the shed and I have to admit that I get a bit of a kick from a shiny new cylinder. The dings on my tanks are like the scars on my knees: earned through hard use and worn with pride but still a sign of encroaching decrepitude.)

Is RR's cost analysis consistent with the situation set forth? If a tank is in hydro, would you have one done anyway? If so, why?
(The seller maybe a little old lady who says she only used them on sunny Sunday afternoons but I'm going to assume that she beat her tanks up like I do mine. There are people out there who abuse their gear and would have no qualms about selling something they're no longer willing to dive. Some of them have even been known to - gasp - overfill their cylinders. Trust but verify.)

If the tank is in vis, why do another?
(For the same reason I'd have a hydro done: caveat emptor. I've seen tanks with lawnmower clippings inside the valves and even nastier stuff inside them. A good vis can uncover many kinds of big trouble.)

And using the poll conditions, why figure the valve is bad?
(Valves are high stress items that need to be serviced occasionally. It's not a big deal but, so long as you have the valve open to inspect and clean it, it usually makes sense to replace some of the worn parts. Seats, o-rings and even stems can and do go bad. This is an annual process for most of my tanks, anyway.)

It seems that you'd never be able to use a rented tank without taking all the upfront steps.
(Never dive at a resort where the tank farm by the fill station is referred to by the staff as "the trash heap.";) Most of my diving is done with my own tanks but you've got a point. When using rental equipment, you're placing your life in the hands of the shop. One difference between buying and renting is that, at the end of the day, I get to give the rental back. Besides, isn't that little frisson that you feel when you pick out your tank in Cozumel part of the fun?)

So, would that make $95 the value? (for a with a tank in current hydro and visual and in good shape with no significant damage).
(More or less, which is one reason to just ante up buy a new one. There isn't enough money to be saved to justify the risk and hassle.)

A lot of items have a significant charge built in for the warranty. When you buy it used, the warranty is usually not transferable. So, there is a real loss of value. That is what is behind much of the 'rule of thumb' for a third less or half less, etc. The next significant issue is how much life has been lost out of the product. ( A one year old pair of well used shoes probably has much less of it's life left than a well used 80AL.) Then there is required maintenance amortized over the period of use. (Current hydro could only have one year left, where a new tank has five.) Then you always have to work in your own value of a new vs. used item.
I consider aluminum tanks to be disposable items - they're a little brittle and far more sensitive to heat and many chemicals than steel tanks. They're also cheap, even new. My rule of thumb is to discard them (not sell them) before the 4th hydro date.

If you bought one of my used 80ALs, you'd be getting a nicer tank than one from an operator in Cozumel, even though they both fit the poll conditions. To me, I hardly think the value of both is the same.
I agree with you; I've got a couple of NB80's that are nearly a decade old that are in far better condition than some of my much younger S80 deco tanks - that's what usage does. The question buyers have to decide is whether or not used cylinders are worth the extra time and aggravation. Personally, when it comes to AL tanks, I don't think it is but others can and do disagree. Steel is another thing - they can last a lot longer and cost a lot more and that changes the economics of the decision.

[scububa]

Good points. Imagine all of this for an AL tank. We'd better not get into anything complicated :eek: We'd never get any diving in :D

[Trever]

I am neutral on the subject of used tanks and I can briefly tell you about my experience with a used tank. One day while at my son’s soccer game my daycare provider called me and said that there was a yard sale in town and that they listed SCUBA gear as one of the items for sale. I enjoy yard sales (I rarely make a purchase) so I decided to check it out after my son’s game.

When I got to the yard sale there was a table with a bunch of Wal-Mart quality kids masks, snorkels and fins for sale. I figured that the person having the yard sale consider these items as being “SCUBA gear” so I passed the table and started to look at some other things when I noticed a BC with an attached AL80. I was very new to Diving at the time, heck I still am, and the BC was my size so I shelled out $25.00 hard earned dollars for the BC and AL80. Even though I was new to diving I know quite a little about compressed gasses, I am a home brewer with a 2 tap keggerator, and have done a significant amount of welding. I knew from the markings that the AL80 was out of hydro by 5 years but that it was manufactured after 1990. My thinking was that even if the AL80 didn’t pass the Hydro that I still had a decent BC for $25.

Well a Month later I purchase a New BC and never used the one that I purchased at the yard sale. I was thinking about Ebaying it, but I wouldn’t get much for it and it would make a nice back up BC. Actually it is #3 BC now. I purchased a back inflate, I won a Stab Jacket and I still have my yard sale special. Now back to the AL80…

It passed Hydro $25 and Visual $10 with free fill and since I never used the BC that came with it I figure that I purchased the AL80 for $25. So $60 bucks into a tank, not to bad, cept for one thing… the valve. The Burst disk started to leak on my third dive with it, $7 for a new one. On my 6th dive with it the handle started leaking, another $10 to rebuilt the handle. So I have $72 into the AL80, not bad, but TWO aborted dives that I will never get back, very bad.

I guess that generally I came out OK, but if I were in the market for another AL80 I would go new. I will probably go with steel 120’s on my next purchase though, and consider used.

[scububa]

... So $60 bucks into a tank, not to bad, cept for one thing… the valve. The Burst disk started to leak on my third dive with it, $7 for a new one. On my 6th dive with it the handle started leaking, another $10 to rebuilt the handle. So I have $72 into the AL80, not bad, but TWO aborted dives that I will never get back, very bad.

I guess that generally I came out OK, but if I were in the market for another AL80 I would go new. ....

Okay Reefraff, did you put him up to this :p
Jim